Running improvements and combat controls

Kieran

Developer
Many people found the poor running motion in our latest video quite distracting so we made an immediate effort to improve it. There also seems to be quite a lot of confusion about how the combat works so we made a new, more detailed explanation of the controls as they are in their current state.

There is a lot of room for improvement in the animation system in general and inevitably it draws people's attention. While we do want to continue improving animation we're currently focusing on other aspects of the game.

You may notice that at times the characters seem off balance and recover somewhat unrealistically. While this is relatively easy to improve in a way that would look better in a video it would also take away control from the player by causing involuntary steps and shuffles. We're prioritising gameplay, better to have something that's fun to play and not just nice to watch! That said we can probably improve this but again we don't consider it a priority right now.

 

Fresh

Insider
Looks much better, and thanks for the information on controls! I can't find anything I dislike about what you've shown us now, can't wait to play alpha! Proud of you guys - you are really making the dream game.
 

Komuflage

Insider
Looks great, but as mentioned in the clip, can do with further improvements/adjustment. But frankly I don't care that much, running animations is not the reason I'll play SG.
Combat controls functioned like expected, but nice to get it confirmed.
Great work BM, keep it up :D
 

Rob

Moderator
Thank you so much for this video, so soon after the last!!! :D

Looks great, and it's great to see how the controls work - can't wait to try it out in the alpha!!!

Being constructively critical: the running is improved, but if you watch her hips when she's running they are perfectly still. Her hips don't move at all. I'm pretty sure that hips bob up and down as you run... at least a bit. Is it possible to add a bit more bounce to her step without it looking silly???

Great stuff!!! :)
 

lvk

Insider
The controls do sound like they're fairly natural - besides the WASD being character-oriented rather than screen-oriented (though I haven't really thought of either to be honest), it seems to play exactly like I thought it would from videos, so that's a huge plus.
 

Madoc

Project Lead
Here's a comment I made on youtube:

Our intent here was to show that it can be improved. All animations are driven by physical forces and always interact seamlessly with the environment, including the running. The legs also predictively adapt to the ground. This isn't just keyframe animation, getting things to look right can be tricky.

As for WASD being relative to the character, how would you lunge at someone at an angle from you? It may seem confusing at first but you quickly get completely used to it and it works very well. The movement being relative to you and your opponent just makes immediate sense.
 

Smileyface97

Insider
The running looks better, but could still use some work, the character feels weightless and her arms limp despite being in a running cycle. Just some constructive criticism for later when you're ready to refine further.

Also may I take this time to express how much I love the music that is being used for this game. Stellar is only one word among many positive comments that I'd use to describe it.
 

Tony

Moderator
Big improvement and I dare say good enough for release. I believe once people actually get to play the game they'll be so involved with so many other things that the last thing on their mind will be whether or not the character looks 100% natural while running. In the state shown in the video, while not perfect, it looks natural enough to not be a distraction while playing. Excellent job and done in record time to boot! ;)
 
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Reactions: Rob
That was arguably more interesting that the last video. Looking at that compared to the last Combat Explanation really shows how much improvement has taken place. Great work guys! And I love the overhead swings, I thought I was imagining it in the last video but clearly not.

Also , with respect to WASD. I don't see where the problem lies. Think of a twin stick top down shooter, except your left stick is replaced if WASD and right stick with cursor. A lot of them have up or W to be relative to the top of the screen, but a lot of them also have it relative to facing, it's not that strange.

And finally, you may have shot yourself in the foot here, a lot of people might start to think that videos will be coming thick and fast because of this, which would be a good thing, just don't let it waste your time.
 

Rob

Moderator
Our intent here was to show that it can be improved. All animations are driven by physical forces and always interact seamlessly with the environment, including the running. The legs also predictively adapt to the ground. This isn't just keyframe animation, getting things to look right can be tricky.
That's all great. I think that things are moving forward in leaps and bounds (lol). There's loads of time between now and the release to get things such as the animation refined. I can imagine it's ridiculously hard to get the animation looking right, but for sure such things will converge to something great!!!
 

Sneil

Insider
Awesome improvement. Seems all it took was shortening up that foreword stride some and it indeed made things look loads better. Of course there's a few things that could be added to make it look even better, but as you said that can come latter.

I think the comments about it looking as if its being suspendedon strings/wires stems from the lack of up and down motion I mentioned in the other thread. That natural bounce you get as your knees absorb the shock of impact which would make things look a little more organic. Anyway, that can be added later and already those minor adjustments are major improvements.:cool:
 

AW8

Supporter
We're prioritising gameplay, better to have something that's fun to play and not just nice to watch!
True dat! Many games seems to do the opposite, that's why we get stuff like the amazing-looking but barely functional map in Skyrim.

Also, it's great to see feedback being incorporated into the game so quickly!

Lastly, will there ever be footprints in Sui Generis? Truth be told, the absence of footprints after the player on that beach stood out more to me than the running animation. Footprints in the sand would be trivial, pointless... and oh so beautiful!
 
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Sneil

Insider
Here's a comment I made on youtube:

Our intent here was to show that it can be improved. All animations are driven by physical forces and always interact seamlessly with the environment, including the running. The legs also predictively adapt to the ground. This isn't just keyframe animation, getting things to look right can be tricky.

As for WASD being relative to the character, how would you lunge at someone at an angle from you? It may seem confusing at first but you quickly get completely used to it and it works very well. The movement being relative to you and your opponent just makes immediate sense.
You should put this in the video description so people see it right away and don't continue to tell you over and over they still think it needs more improvement.:confused::mad:
 
Actually, I'm wondering, after a two swings (left then right) there is a delay between the next attack. Is the length of the delay the sort of thing that is affected by physique, skills and weapon stats? I'm pretty certain that the wait of the weapon would affect it but we still don't know much about the skill system's specifics.
 

Subhu Man

Insider
One thing I notice is the sword and mace swinging animations have your character spending time slowing their swing down. When chaining attacks the character is still at the beginning of each back and forward swing, while resetting to their initial position.

It would be nifty if they maintained momentum between blows by using a figure 8 motion rather than swing back swing forward and repeat. Perhaps put a skill shot element into it by releasing and repressing attack button at end of swing to figure 8 the reverse swing rather than stop and swing back again. To see what I mean about a figure 8 motion, check this guide which gives a rough idea what I am on about. Note how fast he can swing the sword back and forth by not stopping at the end of each swing.

 
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