ezazenyem
Member
Exanima, combat. Can you remember the moment when your weapon hits the enemy on the head striking him down to the ground, causing him agonizing pain and your next, perfectly executed hit on the head sends him to the arms of the eternal abyss... (or the very opposite, when you are not careful enough...)
I think due to the great physical system, the combat is the most spectacular, satisfying and unique feature of the game although it is far from perfection.
The combat system reminds me of the Chivalry Medieval Warfare gameplay, simple weapon movements in an environment where you can vary them in an infinite number of ways. I’m sure with some additional tweaks Examina’s combat system can became an all time classic.
A huge amount of threads born from very creative people about the combat and combat system with very viable suggestions, but please let me share my thoughts as a casual rpg player, purely from gameplay perspective. I tried to read as much as I can to avoid repeating others or at least to notice others suggestions. I did my best, if somebody finds his idea below without notice, maybe I didn’t read his/her thread or just forgot to give the credit...
I’m also aware of the fact that it is much easier said than done but we have nothing else to do anyway rather than suggest, talk, argue over the game. (and as you may see by now English is not my native language, so please forgive me if I’m making lots of mistakes)
I’ve made up five points:
- Movement
- Combat skills
- Weapon related skills
- Endurance
- Controls
Movement
In my opinion the character movement is still unwieldy because the body is limited to your steps. It is hard to describe, but I’m sure everybody who played the game knows what I’m talking about. This makes the combat movement lumpish, sometimes unpredictable. It is hard to get the best distance between you and your target even if you are hitting practice doll (at least for me...)
This should be improved to make the characters stride more fluid and the combat more wieldy.
I think this could be improved easily by shorten and speed up the steps (maybe with a passive skill), so the character will be faster, and easier to handle in combat.
Combat skills
The game already has combat skills but I think they should be expanded. Kicking, shield-bashing/weapon-bashing (to push away enemies from very close).
Quick-throwing throwing weapons like knifes, stones, axes, smoke grenades, etc. (previously put them on character in the inventory).
Rolling, backsteping (back-jump) during the combat would offer a lot of other possibilities. Those could make the lighter armors a more viable options, offering defence in speed and dodge.
And thanks for the physical engine, imagine a light armored-dodgy enemy fall off in a chair while stepping back... offering a himself to be viciously murdered.
Roll away and block while laying on the ground (also suggested by zhuliks and Iscander) to avoid the previous situation...
Other fun game mechanism could be the „furniture throwing” in combat. Within a small circle around the character the items could be picked up using the cursor and a button and then could be thrown in the direction of the cursor with a limited amount of force. Again, imagine tipping off a charging enemy with a chair thrown in front of his legs...
Mechanism similar to this exists already, but quite hard to perform it in a combat situation (even with "combat use").
I think, those combat skills could make strategies where the actual surroundings are more essential than ever making the physical engine even more important.
Weapon related skills
I named it skills but can be „grips” as well. My point is that every weapon should have at least two different mode to fight. For example a two handed sword could have an alternative mode, like half-swording, griping the blade and use the sword similar as a smaller polearm, using the pommel and cross-guard for blunt attacks and offering a quicker and more precise thrust.
Or a polearm hold in a different way (like Bullethead suggested), or (when we will have) missile weapons have a (emergency) close combat strike to fend off enemies.
The list could go on for several pages for dual wielding, one handed weapons, etc. but I think you got the idea.
I would also like to see skills making the strikes a bit faster (and a bit more powerful) making fighters and fights a bit different, even with the same weapons.
Endurance
I think the game should do something with fatigue. Running around in heavy armor (which also limits the breathing capability and can overheat the wearer) and swinging a huge sword, parrying should make our character winded. The system similar in the Dark Souls series could be used here. I mean an other colored bar representing the character’s fatigue. Every action in combat would drain it and the character’s encumber determines how fast it refills.
I know the encumber system is not planned, but maybe just for the worn equipment it would apply (again, similar in Dark Souls series).
This would make the players think and teaches them to save their breath during a fighting also making lighter armor more viable choice.
(Maybe the character’s physical state should also improve while adventuring as a result of contiguous training)
Controls
A lot of suggestions about the combat system fails on the controls, how to implement it in the game without making it unplayable.
Here is my version of combat controls:
W-A-S-D - movement
Q - kick
E – pick up environment items (LMB to throw) /use throwing items (like throwing knifes/axes/smoke grenades/etc.)
SPACE – backstep/backjump (left alt -align camera)
F – changing weapon grip/mods
Mouse:
As far as I know the direction of the attack depends which side of the character the cursor is, when performing an attack. My problem with it, I find it quite hard to execute when you are actually fighting with somebody.I don’t know if it is an issue to somebody else too...
I have two suggestion to solve this problem:
First, put slash from left to LMB and right to RMB (although RMB to movement is seems handy but maybe putting it on SHIFT button, when pushed, start running toward the cursor would do the trick as well).
Second, having a faint „T” or „I” shape indicator in front of the character showing us, which side is the cursor actually is highlighting a bit the current one making the strikes more predictable. Quite similar that Satorii suggested. This indicator would also help us determine the impact of an overslash attack, as well as a thrust attack.
I think, the overslash attack would be more appropriate on MMB Scroll-down and thrust (when it will arrives) on MMB Scroll-up. (like in Chivalry Medieval Warfare). Personally I don’t use zooming in battle and I think it would be good at „+” and „-”.
Orbiting the camera with MMB is very useful, especially when the camera is twisting up at the walls.
Personally I find this scheme satisfactory but please tell what do you think!
So, to summarize my thoughts, implement historically accurate movements, duels and general combat seem quite impossible and maybe result unplayable game mechanisms. I only talked about 1vs1, didn’t involve NPCs, team tactics (both NPC and enemy) or mounted combat but I think, these are the essential game mechanics in Exanima.
Making more different moves to all weapons and more movement options in combat would expand the whole fighting experience without making fights less predictable, more challenging and anything but boring without making the controls too difficult.
I’m really curious what do you guys think!
I think due to the great physical system, the combat is the most spectacular, satisfying and unique feature of the game although it is far from perfection.
The combat system reminds me of the Chivalry Medieval Warfare gameplay, simple weapon movements in an environment where you can vary them in an infinite number of ways. I’m sure with some additional tweaks Examina’s combat system can became an all time classic.
A huge amount of threads born from very creative people about the combat and combat system with very viable suggestions, but please let me share my thoughts as a casual rpg player, purely from gameplay perspective. I tried to read as much as I can to avoid repeating others or at least to notice others suggestions. I did my best, if somebody finds his idea below without notice, maybe I didn’t read his/her thread or just forgot to give the credit...
I’m also aware of the fact that it is much easier said than done but we have nothing else to do anyway rather than suggest, talk, argue over the game. (and as you may see by now English is not my native language, so please forgive me if I’m making lots of mistakes)
I’ve made up five points:
- Movement
- Combat skills
- Weapon related skills
- Endurance
- Controls
Movement
In my opinion the character movement is still unwieldy because the body is limited to your steps. It is hard to describe, but I’m sure everybody who played the game knows what I’m talking about. This makes the combat movement lumpish, sometimes unpredictable. It is hard to get the best distance between you and your target even if you are hitting practice doll (at least for me...)
This should be improved to make the characters stride more fluid and the combat more wieldy.
I think this could be improved easily by shorten and speed up the steps (maybe with a passive skill), so the character will be faster, and easier to handle in combat.
Combat skills
The game already has combat skills but I think they should be expanded. Kicking, shield-bashing/weapon-bashing (to push away enemies from very close).
Quick-throwing throwing weapons like knifes, stones, axes, smoke grenades, etc. (previously put them on character in the inventory).
Rolling, backsteping (back-jump) during the combat would offer a lot of other possibilities. Those could make the lighter armors a more viable options, offering defence in speed and dodge.
And thanks for the physical engine, imagine a light armored-dodgy enemy fall off in a chair while stepping back... offering a himself to be viciously murdered.
Roll away and block while laying on the ground (also suggested by zhuliks and Iscander) to avoid the previous situation...
Other fun game mechanism could be the „furniture throwing” in combat. Within a small circle around the character the items could be picked up using the cursor and a button and then could be thrown in the direction of the cursor with a limited amount of force. Again, imagine tipping off a charging enemy with a chair thrown in front of his legs...
Mechanism similar to this exists already, but quite hard to perform it in a combat situation (even with "combat use").
I think, those combat skills could make strategies where the actual surroundings are more essential than ever making the physical engine even more important.
Weapon related skills
I named it skills but can be „grips” as well. My point is that every weapon should have at least two different mode to fight. For example a two handed sword could have an alternative mode, like half-swording, griping the blade and use the sword similar as a smaller polearm, using the pommel and cross-guard for blunt attacks and offering a quicker and more precise thrust.
Or a polearm hold in a different way (like Bullethead suggested), or (when we will have) missile weapons have a (emergency) close combat strike to fend off enemies.
The list could go on for several pages for dual wielding, one handed weapons, etc. but I think you got the idea.
I would also like to see skills making the strikes a bit faster (and a bit more powerful) making fighters and fights a bit different, even with the same weapons.
Endurance
I think the game should do something with fatigue. Running around in heavy armor (which also limits the breathing capability and can overheat the wearer) and swinging a huge sword, parrying should make our character winded. The system similar in the Dark Souls series could be used here. I mean an other colored bar representing the character’s fatigue. Every action in combat would drain it and the character’s encumber determines how fast it refills.
I know the encumber system is not planned, but maybe just for the worn equipment it would apply (again, similar in Dark Souls series).
This would make the players think and teaches them to save their breath during a fighting also making lighter armor more viable choice.
(Maybe the character’s physical state should also improve while adventuring as a result of contiguous training)
Controls
A lot of suggestions about the combat system fails on the controls, how to implement it in the game without making it unplayable.
Here is my version of combat controls:
W-A-S-D - movement
Q - kick
E – pick up environment items (LMB to throw) /use throwing items (like throwing knifes/axes/smoke grenades/etc.)
SPACE – backstep/backjump (left alt -align camera)
F – changing weapon grip/mods
Mouse:
As far as I know the direction of the attack depends which side of the character the cursor is, when performing an attack. My problem with it, I find it quite hard to execute when you are actually fighting with somebody.I don’t know if it is an issue to somebody else too...
I have two suggestion to solve this problem:
First, put slash from left to LMB and right to RMB (although RMB to movement is seems handy but maybe putting it on SHIFT button, when pushed, start running toward the cursor would do the trick as well).
Second, having a faint „T” or „I” shape indicator in front of the character showing us, which side is the cursor actually is highlighting a bit the current one making the strikes more predictable. Quite similar that Satorii suggested. This indicator would also help us determine the impact of an overslash attack, as well as a thrust attack.
I think, the overslash attack would be more appropriate on MMB Scroll-down and thrust (when it will arrives) on MMB Scroll-up. (like in Chivalry Medieval Warfare). Personally I don’t use zooming in battle and I think it would be good at „+” and „-”.
Orbiting the camera with MMB is very useful, especially when the camera is twisting up at the walls.
Personally I find this scheme satisfactory but please tell what do you think!
So, to summarize my thoughts, implement historically accurate movements, duels and general combat seem quite impossible and maybe result unplayable game mechanisms. I only talked about 1vs1, didn’t involve NPCs, team tactics (both NPC and enemy) or mounted combat but I think, these are the essential game mechanics in Exanima.
Making more different moves to all weapons and more movement options in combat would expand the whole fighting experience without making fights less predictable, more challenging and anything but boring without making the controls too difficult.
I’m really curious what do you guys think!