Exanima 0.4.1.1: Combat Movement Changes

[Elaxter]

The idea that new movement changes alter the pace of the game is a fictitious concept. I see no visible difference between lunge distance and step distance between the updates. With that in mind, I say it is far easier to perform dodges, and stepping is more intuitive. You have to have the rhythm of the stepping down for it to be on key. Though an option to change between the two modes is necessary because of people's preferences.

 

[Madoc]

My thoughts and opinions:

4. I have found this update has made combat in the narrow and litter stricken corridors of the non-arena section of this game rather more difficult than it was before. Falling over obstacles and getting caught out stuck in objects and up against walls is occurring more frequently than before. Highlights in my opinion the need to have a system where holding WASD = single step (for close quarters in narrow/closed in environments) and WASD + shift = dash (for combat in more open areas).

I also noticed that it leads to the getting stuck on walls and other things more often. Fixing that problem is the very next thing I'm going to do, I know what's causing it and how to fix it, just haven't got round to doing it yet.

 

[Conan]

After having beaten both arenas with the new movement scheme I can say that overall I like it. Combat is much more dynamic and actually feels much more like real combat.
I am not sure whether in real combat anybody would constantly dash around instead of for example simply running when further away. When you are out of reach even after a dash forward then you would probably simply run because it gives a more controlled way of getting closer and looks smoother. Maybe it would work well if there was a range based way of movement in combat? If my character is further than a certain distance from the opponent then he just runs until he gets close enough where he starts to dash like now.

 

[tiny lampe]

I've been trying the new input-system for a few hours. So far, I prefer the old one.

The main reason is that I find the new system more error-prone. In many occasions I want to perform a single step and yet I end up performing a dash. Maybe it's just me but I find the difference between 'tapping' and 'holding' a movement key a bit too subtle to be reliable. In comparison, the difference between tapping and double-tapping felt more distinguisable and hence easier to pull off 'in the heat of combat'.

 

[Boothie]

So far a big improvement, ive always disliked it when games want me to doubletap to achieve a dodge or sprint as it feels very cumbersome to me and i love that we can dodge sideways now, something which i felt was missing before.

If the game is too easy now i think there are two things to consider 1. if the game was harder before it was because you were fighting the controls which in my view makes for a worse game 2. Since the change is so new the AI has not been adjusted to the new way that the players can fight. Lets wait and see what baremettle does next before you condemn this change.

 

[TwoPumpWarrior]

The comments page has been blowing up on the Exanima Greenlight. Only one announcement though, maybe this could be added to the page with an update of steam progress. I think it was near 500 or 600 this morning and now there are over 900 comments!

 

[Vold]

Finally had some time to play. I can't believe I am having fun with the new feature to move corpses around. I thought it was the same with other objects when read the changelog, but it's actually different and feels great. It really feels like you are draging it, even depending on from where you grab it.
Excellent!

 

[ansong]

I'd like the movement changes to be toggle-able if that's ok. Where before I was circling people in the arena, sidestepping their swings, I'm now lurching all over the place. I feel like I'm drunk!

 

[Paranoia]

I don't want to condemn anything but sure want to call once more attention to my state of dissatisfaction with the latest change. (english not my first language I know it sounds swollen bare with me pls)

To me the more frequent dashes makes the combat look unrealistic* and give it a unprecise feel. I think this is due to the movements of the duellists. Before they were behaving mimetically now the player moves a lot more. In the heat of a few hasty swings I sway like on a ship in heavy sea.

But since double tapping is not an optimal solution for dashing it isn't good for the normal movement either. When I was hindered to dash before, now I have to revert to the same input method to make normal steps.
Furthermore it's my guess that less players would like the change if the AI increased their dash frequencie accordingly to make the combat less asymetric.

*it might even be more unrealistic: endurance wise and from a self-security stand point. In a head to head fight for live and death you might want to watch your opponent furtively rather than dashing in willy nilly.

 

[InfamousPotato]

Ok, I feel like an idiot, but I didn't quite realize you could dash before this update. I know it's not a new feature, but I'd like to say I'm very glad that I now know about it, and can use it. Thanks BareMettle.

I agree with others about WASD + Shift. It sounds like it would solve most problems. I'm also ok with the system we have now, though I don't particularly like double tapping the WASD keys. Still, that's just a preference of mine. Overall, I'm just really happy about being able to dash. Combat's a lot more fun.

 

[Raaq666]

To me the more frequent dashes makes the combat look unrealistic* and give it a unprecise feel. I think this is due to the movements of the duellists. Before they were behaving mimetically now the player moves a lot more. In the heat of a few hasty swings I sway like on a ship in heavy sea.

Yeah, this was pretty much my initial thoughts too on the new dashing.
I personally preferred the original double tapping and making it a toggleable option would be great.
It might just be a case of getting used to using it, but this is my initial impression.

 

[Holy.Death]

I wasn't certain about dash being used by default, but I like it now. If you use some very specific point-of-attack weapon (like an axe, ball of crushing, etc.) simply press button once. If you use weapons that are short or have a very broad attack (like a short sword) holding button to dash is better.

I am against WASD + Shift. I would rather make it toggleable. Same goes for sprint: make it toggleable. That's the best option in my opinion.

 

[Alex]

That sounds like great changes. getting new version now =D Keep up the excellent work.

 

[Vold]

It looks like the new combat movement system allows you to make larger and faster dashes.
edit: Nevermind, shame on me I did not read previous posts.

 

[TwoPumpWarrior]

What is the in-game version for this combat movement patch? Mine still says 0.4.1 after the patch and I did not notice any changes to combat stepping. I installed the patch to the 0.4.1 archive installer, would this make a difference? The patch installed "successfully" apparently. Also checked the quick start guide to see if any changes to the combat information was present, nothing. Downloading the 0.4.1.1 beta installer now.

Edit: Downloading the updates has been a real pain for me lately, I think my wlan card is low quality. So I bought a little Belkin wifi dongle and wow, the difference is amazing. How can a dedicated card perform so poorly in comparison with a usb dongle? Don't really care, just glad I can download from home again
Even downloading that 22 mb patch was agony (took about an hour) until I got this dongle.

 

[Murf]

an hour for 22mb?
Do you even baud bro?

 

[TwoPumpWarrior]

It was my useless dedicated wlan adapter. TP Link I believe. The TP Link card had a varying 60-70% signal strength and now the dongle has like 90% or higher. Thanks TP Link, your quality computing accessories have caused me so much heartache in the last 2 months.

Edit: Working great now, new dashes are indeed a little strange now but I'm working through it.
Also downloading some Halo Online stuff that someone managed to de-russian-ize. No multiplayer yet.

 

[Prince Charming]

I must say having fought in the arena and beaten it on the expert mode a couple of times with various weapons in this new patch, the combat in general feels easier. It took a while to get into the new system of movement and I have mixed feelings about it. Pros are definitely that the diagonal movement is possible to pull off especially when using the 1h axe. Not to boast but I managed to kill the sword shield lady on expert with one well-timed 1h axe swing to her head as she dashed to strike me. Was very nice to see that this was possible! Also for the reach of the 1h axe; it hasn't changed I know but the ability to do a diagonal movement has made it significantly easier to connect your swings. ^^ With this in mind, also the possibility of very close combat to do massive damage with every swing. After some practice the movement feels fluid if you dont constantly press your movement keys. Timing is key! It feels easier to time your swing with the new dash. Often times I also feel that with this movement it has made it easier to strike the opponent above or below shield- or even around. My nemesis is the shield-wielding swords-women! So this made me feel better

Cons. Well, I feel that sometimes when I thought that I just simply tapped a movement key I end up dodging. This can make it quite frustrating and more unintuitive as I feel like I have less control over my character. Also with the new dashes I simply tested to dash and swing, since I feel as if I have gotten more power to the swings, my character wobbles back and forth and side to side even though I have released from the swing. This makes the shield particularly hard to control and maneuver to block against an incoming blow - again going back to the lack of control feeling.

One more thing which I am wondering is about the react-ability of the dashes, since it's a hold in to dash, I am worried that I will get hit because I no longer can control, my so called, instant dash. Before it felt more instant that I chose to dash now because of double tap. I am worried those few milliseconds could cost me my life. I am not sure of this. Again that does go under the category of lack of control, but mainly a feeling I have been getting from the combat experience. My question being is the time of the double tap just as fast as the hold-in to dodge type of system just as equally fast or faster/slower?

Also an unrelated question being, when striking I have often found that even when their weapon hits my shield spot on I seem to take non-leathal damage. I have tested this countless times (because I know it is difficult and want to master it), it sometimes feels as if it is no longer possible to do? With the old system however I was getting quite good at it. ^^

small summary for people who can't be bothered with a ginormous text:

PROS:
- Diagonal movement! YAY!
- Close combat (1h weapons), more devastating hits! YAY!
- Hitting around shields, above/below! YAY!
And there was much rejoicing... yaaay...

CONS:
- The feeling of lack of control, tapping keys ending up in dodges.
- Character wobbling after a dash swing.
- More difficulty to block because of the wobbling.

QUESTION:
- Is the time of the double tap just as fast as the hold-in to dodge type of system just as equally fast or faster/slower?
- When positioning shield to get struck as you strike, even spot on, I take non-lethal damage. Is it possible to still do this without the damage of course?

I have played quite a few hours but would like the possibility to switch between them so that I may actively test both. ^^ It's hard to make a comparison even though I have played considerable amounts of hours with the old system than the new. ^^ These aren't meant as complaints or such, just observations. And really just wanted to share my feelings with the Developers and the community! ^^

Sorry for the long post but I really felt like sharing! Thanks for reading ^^

 

[Elaxter]

B-but nothing changed but the controls. You say it like dodging is somehow different. It's not. It's exactly the same as prior.

 

[Vold]

It is not the same at all. Before you had to double tap W or A or S or D, quickly for the character to perform a dash, now you have to keep it pressed for it to understand that you want to perform a dash, it may seem like a subtle change but it is really not, specially for those who have been playing in this game for a long time.
With the new system I also have mixed feelings, before it was pretty hard to perform a dash for me, I had to bash the keyboard (probably because its kind of old), but now it is much easier, although, now it is hard to perform simple steps (you have to press and release the key, pretty much like the old way of dashing but continously), so I'd rather have something in the middle.
But overall I think it is an improvement, although I'd like that the current dash instruction would trigger when holding the key a little longer.