Gear quality dilemma.

Do you agree with the reasoning of OP?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 27.8%
  • No

    Votes: 13 72.2%

  • Total voters
    18

Peasant135

Member
Immagine, what if this game had only regular quality armor. You just fill the slots with rank appropriate pieces and go to battle. Simple but not very interesting. Lets try expanding on this: lets add heavy and light sub-classes of items. Now you can choose the point of balance between protection and agility you are comfortable with. If you think you're pretty smart you can even optimize your gear by equpping heavy versions on the areas that get hit the most and replacing the rest with light ones. Much more interesting that having to do with just one variant of each item, dont you think? But its exactly what happens when you reach late game. No matter what kind of personalized gear combo you might make up you'll never top the simple strategy of choosing to use the Exceptional versions of every item you wear. Thats why I believe that having the class of ultimate items in the game, no matter how hard to get, will ultimately be to the detriment of the game experience.
 

HopeDIV

Moderator
I doubt Exceptional will be so common as to make that a case. With the encumbrance changes and what not your looking more and more at that not being so easy. Although, I suppose a greater difference between heavy and light could be interesting.

EDIT: Was referring more to SG, than Exanima. But i'm not against toning down the rate of exceptional gear in story mode.
 

Peasant135

Member
I doubt Exceptional will be so common as to make that a case. With the encumbrance changes and what not your looking more and more at that not being so easy. Although, I suppose a greater difference between heavy and light could be interesting.

EDIT: Was referring more to SG, than Exanima. But i'm not against toning down the rate of exceptional gear in story mode.
Thats not what I meant. It is pointless to make the Exceptional gear more rare. Sooner or later, but inevitably, the player is going to collect the exceptional versions of ALL the items of his gear and then.... What then? what then.....
 

HopeDIV

Moderator
Thats not what I meant. It is pointless to make the Exceptional gear more rare. Sooner or later, but inevitably, the player is going to collect the exceptional versions of ALL the items of his gear and then.... What then? what then.....
Then you use it until you lose it or replace it. Sometimes there just objectively better items, doesnt make it bad. If Exceptional was as common to never need to decide between anything else, sure but it is not. Although it is pretty common in story mode after the portal but I dont think that will matter for long.
 
I dont know if this is planned or not, but a nice way of countering the system already in place could be equipment wear.

exceptional armour would only be good for so long, before it turned into superior, then regular, battered, yadayada whatever the qualities are.

I want to say that i heard about this being planned but i cant remember.
 

Peasant135

Member
Then you use it until you lose it or replace it. Sometimes there just objectively better items, doesnt make it bad. If Exceptional was as common to never need to decide between anything else, sure but it is not. Although it is pretty common in story mode after the portal but I dont think that will matter for long.
I get a feeling you havent played this game much. In the arena mode(arguably more similar to the free-play mode of SG than the linear story mode) you dont "use it until you lose it" the item never disappears, even in the event of the death of the character who was wearing it. And it is as common as you like, just hire more merchants to look for the stuff you want.

I dont know if this is planned or not, but a nice way of countering the system already in place could be equipment wear.

exceptional armour would only be good for so long, before it turned into superior, then regular, battered, yadayada whatever the qualities are.

I want to say that i heard about this being planned but i cant remember.
I've had this idea already but was trying to minimize the scope of the chages needed to solve this problem. If the system you describe is to be implemented the entire current gear system would need to be reshaped to ensure it would not make the game too easy nor too tedious.
 
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gugand

Member
It is obvious that everyone get the best quality equipment. Better quality means better equipment. Quality will change the price and characteristics. In Exanima Story mode and Arena Mode that is quite trivial cause of what you said. Instead in Sui Generis quality importance will be be consequence of rarity and making money difficult.

Other qualities like light, heavy and reinforced equipment can change the encumbrance and protection compared to standard version (i.e. light: encumbrance-- defence-, heavy: encumbrance++ defence++, reinforced: encumbrance+ defence+).
 

Syllabear3

Member
No, because you equip what you want already. No one forces you to wear exceptional, or even use heavy armor.
 

Peasant135

Member
No, because you equip what you want already. No one forces you to wear exceptional, or even use heavy armor.
Those are not the same things. The difference between them is that you dont have any lasting penalty for wearing Exceptional version of armor. Did you get an idea that I was advocating aganst heavy(plate) armor in this game? Because then you got the wrong impression.
And you are correct about the player able to wear whatever he wants. Technically. (the best kind of correct) However, how much enjoyment would you get from getting forced to fight in cloth against opponent in full plate ? I immagine most people would say: "very little". So, de-facto, you are not free to wear anything you want because different items have different properties.

It is obvious that everyone get the best quality equipment. Better quality means better equipment. Quality will change the price and characteristics. In Exanima Story mode and Arena Mode that is quite trivial cause of what you said. Instead in Sui Generis quality importance will be be consequence of rarity and making money difficult.

Other qualities like light, heavy and reinforced equipment can change the encumbrance and protection compared to standard version (i.e. light: encumbrance-- defence-, heavy: encumbrance++ defence++, reinforced: encumbrance+ defence+).
Hold on, I'm gonna get my team of cryptographers to decifer what you were trying to say with this post, but meanwhile maybe you could clarify this for me thus saving them work and time.
 

Roryn

Member
Those are not the same things. The difference between them is that you dont have any lasting penalty for wearing Exceptional version of armor. Did you get an idea that I was advocating aganst heavy(plate) armor in this game? Because then you got the wrong impression.
And you are correct about the player able to wear whatever he wants. Technically. (the best kind of correct) However, how much enjoyment would you get from getting forced to fight in cloth against opponent in full plate ? I immagine most people would say: "very little". So, de-facto, you are not free to wear anything you want because different items have different properties.
Oh god.. you just opened a massive can of worms, my friend. Syllabear loves to fight naked, and he never lets anything go -- not ever. See his profile pic? He chose that because I was all like "it takes skill and know-how to utilise armour properly" and he was all like "nuh not true nuh let me change my sign and pic to annoy you and prove my point".

And that's a direct quote (quoting from memory).
 

Syllabear3

Member
I have left the poor creature traumatized :c

Those are not the same things. The difference between them is that you dont have any lasting penalty for wearing Exceptional version of armor. Did you get an idea that I was advocating aganst heavy(plate) armor in this game? Because then you got the wrong impression.
And you are correct about the player able to wear whatever he wants. Technically. (the best kind of correct) However, how much enjoyment would you get from getting forced to fight in cloth against opponent in full plate ? I immagine most people would say: "very little". So, de-facto, you are not free to wear anything you want because different items have different properties.
So in short, are you mad that you cant find exceptional items and you want it changed?

I personally enjoy having quality in items. It makes me feel like i should peep every single corner looking for them, and when i do i feel rewarded.

Like in real life, you have low quality things that are less functional/useful/lasting (w/e) and those that have better quality that we usually aim for.
I seriously don't see anything wrong with this and you shouldnt be penalized for it but rewarded for your findings.
 

Peasant135

Member
I have left the poor creature traumatized :c

So in short, are you mad that you cant find exceptional items and you want it changed?

I personally enjoy having quality in items. It makes me feel like i should peep every single corner looking for them, and when i do i feel rewarded.

Like in real life, you have low quality things that are less functional/useful/lasting (w/e) and those that have better quality that we usually aim for.
I seriously don't see anything wrong with this and you shouldnt be penalized for it but rewarded for your findings.
No, that's not it. I am also enjoying finding new variants of items, and then having to figure it out whether its worth to swap it with what I already have. And the more different sub variants the better. But the very existence of "The Very Best Quality" of items means that after you find an Exceptional item of one particular type(a helmet for example) Every similar item in the game you will see from that point onward wont be worth even clicking on to look at the stats.
Maybe that's the way things work IRL. But here we have an option to change it for the betterment of this game.
 

Syllabear3

Member
No, that's not it. I am also enjoying finding new variants of items, and then having to figure it out whether its worth to swap it with what I already have. And the more different sub variants the better. But the very existence of "The Very Best Quality" of items means that after you find an Exceptional item of one particular type(a helmet for example) Every similar item in the game you will see from that point onward wont be worth even clicking on to look at the stats.
Maybe that's the way things work IRL. But here we have an option to change it for the betterment of this game.
You can allways find another exceptional variant.

And its your opinion about what will do better for the game, and i respect it. If it would be better would be for you, not for the game.
 

HopeDIV

Moderator
I get a feeling you havent played this game much. In the arena mode(arguably more similar to the free-play mode of SG than the linear story mode) you dont "use it until you lose it" the item never disappears, even in the event of the death of the character who was wearing it. And it is as common as you like, just hire more merchants to look for the stuff you want.
Your feeling is quite off, but atleast with the price hike exceptional equipment has become an investment if you really wish for the best. The game strives to hang towards a more realistic than ideal approach, as all that carries over to Sui generis.

And the story mode is far closer to Sui Generis than the Arena. With the respawn mechanic you will lose equipment in SG. As for its impact on Exanima's story? Probably little to none in the coming levels, if you've played the story you should know of the replacement for heavy armor already in-game. I would expect for more 'special' items to become part of your attire as the story progresses.
 

Peasant135

Member
Your feeling is quite off, but atleast with the price hike exceptional equipment has become an investment if you really wish for the best. The game strives to hang towards a more realistic than ideal approach, as all that carries over to Sui generis.

And the story mode is far closer to Sui Generis than the Arena. With the respawn mechanic you will lose equipment in SG. As for its impact on Exanima's story? Probably little to none in the coming levels, if you've played the story you should know of the replacement for heavy armor already in-game. I would expect for more 'special' items to become part of your attire as the story progresses.
I see. It seems that I was in the dark about how SG will be handing this matter and automathically assumed that upon death your gear would be transported in some kind of safehouse(like it happens currently in the arena mode).
With the forced inventory reset after each death the aforementioned problem is of no great concern. If this information could've been found in some kind of FAQ on the first page of the forums I wouldnt have created this thread in the first place. Thats all, I guess.
 

HopeDIV

Moderator
I see. It seems that I was in the dark about how SG will be handing this matter and automathically assumed that upon death your gear would be transported in some kind of safehouse(like it happens currently in the arena mode).
With the forced inventory reset after each death the aforementioned problem is of no great concern. If this information could've been found in some kind of FAQ on the first page of the forums I wouldnt have created this thread in the first place. Thats all, I guess.
Alot of SG info is from the old Kickstarter days, and such. I can see why you were worried about gear quality now. But the aforementioned mechanics are outlined in the second story of this update:
http://www.baremettle.com/forums/index.php?threads/kickstarter-update-12-true-story-bro.122/

And confirmed by the devs to an extent.
 

Scial

Member
I see. It seems that I was in the dark about how SG will be handing this matter and automathically assumed that upon death your gear would be transported in some kind of safehouse(like it happens currently in the arena mode).
With the forced inventory reset after each death the aforementioned problem is of no great concern. If this information could've been found in some kind of FAQ on the first page of the forums I wouldnt have created this thread in the first place. Thats all, I guess.
It's not a "forced inventory reset". In Sui Generis the thing that makes you different is that you don't really die, you "respawn", and your body is left wherever you died. Which doesn't mean that when you find it it's going to have all your items with it, or even any at all, because of looters or other things. You may even not find your body at all. At least this is what I remember reading from the devs. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Pc Genie

Member
I personally think that perhaps both core ideas would work. The original quality gauge (rusty to exceptional or whatever equivalents), plus having lighter and heavier variants.

I would like to see some gear like for example heavy gambesons which are pretty decent worn alone, but become cumbersome when worn with other armour, contrasted with a padded arming jacket that is weak on its own but provides optimal protection for weight and thus combines nicely with mail and plate.

Also consider that in order to be realistic (and more fun), there should still be general quality like crude and poorly made armour compared with incredibly finely made armour of the same weight classification, retaining an obvious severe price difference.
 
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