Hello a few questions about Sui Generis

[fluffydino2000]

I'd imagine that online servers will end up with some subscription in the end, even though BM would only charge if they needed to. I'd imagine that they wouldn't be able to support the servers just off the profits of this game for that long. If this were the case then they'd have to have a login and therefore nobody would be able to play online if they didn't buy the game.

 

[Decado]

Well, if we get a Key that allows us to download the game, wouldn't that work as authentication for online play? As to having dedicated servers, I'm all for it, but I really wouldn't mind having to host it myself.

 

[Komuflage]

I'd imagine that online servers will end up with some subscription in the end, even though BM would only charge if they needed to. I'd imagine that they wouldn't be able to support the servers just off the profits of this game for that long. If this were the case then they'd have to have a login and therefore nobody would be able to play online if they didn't buy the game.

I was under the impression that we would use p2p and dedicated servers, hence, BM don't have to pay any moneys to keep servers up (This ain't a MMO after all )

 

[Komuflage]

i dont rly agree that cd-key would just work for 1 pc at a time as ive got multiple computers

I meant more like in BF2. (Might have formulated it badly) anyway, you can install the game using the same cd key on how many pcs u want, u can also create how many accounts u want, however, only 1 account can be online at a time. Hence it's not possible to download a torrent with a cd key and play online, but it still wont fell like harsh DRM, just because u're not very restricted.

 

[fluffydino2000]

I think they said somewhere they may need a subscription for something to do with multiplayer, I can't remember what. Although, they did say that they didn't want it and if it existed it'd be as low as possible.

 

[Komuflage]

I think they said somewhere they may need a subscription for something to do with multiplayer, I can't remember what. Although, they did say that they didn't want it and if it existed it'd be as low as possible.

Only reason I could think of is, if they stored your character data. But I think your save files will be local, so that should not be the case. And P2P and dedicated servers shouldn't cost them anything (Since it's player hosted)

I think I read something about what you mention fluffy in the kickstarter updates.
Something like, smaller updates will be free, might charge for bigger expansion (which is logical) and if needed a sup-fee for online. But again, I can't think of any reason why they would have to spend money for us to be able to play online (Other than developement cost)

 

[fluffydino2000]

This is a huge topic and one of the main reasons why we're not promising much yet in terms of online play. Compared to the simple combat mechanics of MMOs the physics based combat in SG requires a massive amount of processing power. Also the complex physics require the lowest possible latency. These two things alone make a true client/server model impossible.

There are many ways people could potentially cheat and each one requires a solution. Our basic idea is that we would offer persistent characters on our servers but players would need to participate in peer to peer games with reciprocal mediation and perhaps a small amount from the servers. We would probably also introduce severe penalties for people found cheating (this will not be free to play). Similarly we imagined competitive arena combats between players where spectating players also act as mediators.


To clarify by "not free to play" I mean you must purchase a copy of the game. We might introduce a very reasonable subscription fee (for these services alone) if we need to cover costs. Either way this is, for the time being, intended as a single player / LAN game.

I've found the post. You're right, it was for character data which apparently they want to host to keep persistent. I don't know much about this stuff but I am assuming it'd be easy to edit the files of a character if it was just local and so they want to prevent that? (This was from Thoughts and General I think).

 

[Fawz]

I think if the only the Online aspect of the game requires an account it would be quite reasonable and still allow for a DRM free game. Having that restriction for LAN wouldn't be too great though, but it would allow for easy online play for non purchased copies of the game. I guess it's still kind of early to have every detailed figured out, but at least we know there will be a DRM free aspect to the game.

 

[Rob]

Regarding online play, I think they're very prudent to say "no" until they've got proof of principle regarding how it could work. And to be honest, I'd prefer them not to spend any time looking at any multiplayer stuff until the raw single-player game is finished, or at least the first release is out.

In the context of the single-player game, I can think of two reasons for having an account that's checked when starting the game: (1) DRM, and (2) to coordinate automatic updates. BM have already said they don't want DRM, and game updates can always be handled manually. Even better, the ability to automatically check for updates upon game launch could/should be optional.

The way I see it, having an online account should be seen as a luxury feature - it's unnecessary, and will take (a lot of) time and effort to implement. If there's to be an online account, then great, so long as it's minimalist enough so that it doesn't turn into one of the imposing "sociable" monstrosities that seems to have become fashionable, such as uplay or steam. Either way, such things should be an afterthought.

 

[fluffydino2000]

I think most of what you're saying is accurate, and I agree with you. But LAN is an intended feature isn't it, since for some reason it's easier to implement? And I am glad that LAN will be a feature as with every RPG I have ever played, I always want to play some kind of free form multiplayer. Just more than one player in the world, not an MMO not restricted coop l, just the same freedom as single player for two players in the same world.

 

[Komuflage]

I always want to play some kind of free form multiplayer. Just more than one player in the world, not an MMO not restricted coop l, just the same freedom as single player for two players in the same world.

This is something I begged for since I started playing video games, still so few rpgs allow for it. I really don't understand why though. Just adding Co-op in skyrim, would actually be enough for me to finish that game.
I miss BG and NWN

 

[Ballowers100]

So I just read a few comments. Sorry for being late. Kinda busy with stuff.

I don't want Sui Generis to have co-op, multiplayer or any type of multiplayer if it distracts from having a really well designed singleplayer. If Sui Generis ever gets multiplayer I don't want any CD Keys at all. We sadly have to learn to live with pirates. CD Projket RED is mad about them as well but there is nothing you can do :/. I don't want any Digital Rights Management (DRM) copy protection client software of any type like CD Keys, SONY's SecuROM, StarForce, Steam, Steam Works or TAGES. Especially since a 100% Digital Rights Management (DRM) free version is promised which will hopefully get sold on GoG.com.

Now onto my other questions.

#1. Will Sui Generis have a dev console (Console command)? So I can type cheats in the dev console like if I want infinite health I just type god mod, infinite health or whatever. Dev consoles are something that is really missing from PC versions of video games. The last video game that I purchased that's on PC was in 2011 the PC version of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim which has a dev console and lets me type tgm (Toggle god mod) for god mode, tcl (Toggle no clip) for no clipping, Additem blah blah blah like player.>additem 000000F 100 which gives me 100 gold, ect.

Will BareMettle Entertainment give us PC gamers a dev console for Sui Generis?

#2. I know Sui Generis does not support Nvidia's PhysX physics engine but will it support Nvidia's TXAA? The PC version of Crysis 3 supports at least 4 different type like FXAA, MSAA, etc can BareMettle Entertainment do this as well please?

#3. I am still looking forward to a 100% Digital Rights Management (DRM) free physical boxed version of Sui Generis sold at brick and mortar retailer stores. Also another thing I want in the physical boxed version of Sui Generis is a physical disc that has mod tools this would be nice to have a physical boxed version of Sui Generis like this sold at brick and mortar retailer stores world wide once they get the mod tools released. The physical disc that contains the mod tools must also be 100% Digital Rights Management (DRM) free as well. Bethesda Game Studios released a physical disc in the physical boxed version of the PC version of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind in 2002. This is something a lot of PC versions of video games are missing that I enjoy. Now I know BareMettle said no mod tools just yet so wait a few months and then release a physical boxed version of Sui Generis that also has a physical disc containing the mod tools to sell to brick and mortar retailer stores world wide. CD Projekt RED might also do this with the physical boxed version of the PC version of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt which will be released and sold sometime in 2014.

Talk with Deep Silver or Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment or someone to distribute physical boxed versions of Sui Generis with a physical disc of Sui Generis itself and a physical disc of the mod tools as well inside all 100% DIgital Rights Management (DRM) free. In the end you will gain more sales due to gaining more customers.

Just a small note: Sui Generis has one of the most amazingly bestest dynamic combat I have ever seen when I watched the new YouTube video a few minutes ago. Bethesda Game Studios needs to take inspiration from BareMettle Entertainment and Sui Generis to add dynamic combat like this for The Elder Scrolls VI and any future video games that Bethesda Game Studios develop and releases in the future. I am never purchasing a video game published by Bethesda Softworks ever again or any of the 7 video game development companies that they own.

Madoc YOU HAVE TRULY DELIVERED AN AMAZING VIDEO GAME. THANK YOU .

 

[Komuflage]

If Sui Generis ever gets multiplayer I don't want any CD Keys at all. We sadly have to learn to live with pirates.

May I just ask why you don't want a CD-key?
I'm fully against CD-keys for the singleplayer part of the game, but if you want to play online (if that option is included) then a CD key is for the better imo.

First of it stops pirates. However the big thing with it, is that otherwise the game will be "free to play" hence I'm imagining a lot of players just joining public servers with all kind of cheats and hacks, generally just ruin the experience.

This is ofc also possible even if you need a cd-key, however I think there will be much less cheaters. Since, if they get banned, they need to purchase another copy of the game.



About the Mod tool. Frankly I think that it should not come in a physical disk, rather downloaded from the site (This is ofc if a mod tool will even be included)

First reason why is that, if BM decides to sell physical copys of the game, having to w8 a few months after release before they start selling them, just so they can include a mod tools, seems quit counter productive. If they want to maximize the sells from physical copy's, then they need to sell them right after the game becomes available.

 

[peta97]

Some of these questions may be being asked a little early, and you may want to read the about section of the game first.

MULTIPLAYER:

Sui Generis is designed from the ground up as a sandbox experience that can be shared by multiple players. Its highly dynamic, completely real time nature and the lack of artificial mechanics mean you and your friends can experience the game together in whatever way you want.

The highly physics intensive gameplay makes online play potentially problematic, it is something we will not attempt to implement until after initial release. Multiplayer on a local network is however something we absolutely want to see accomplished.

DRM/DISTRIBUTION:

Our game will be completely DRM-free.

Where will I be able to download the game from?

Directly from us, via a fast content delivery network. There are other possible options we are considering such as Steam, Gog and Direct2Drive, but nothing is concrete yet.

EDITOR/MODDING

Will an editor / modding tool be included with the game?

We will do whatever we can to make this possible but we're not yet comfortable with promising a complete modding solution. Some of the more advanced features currently require significant technical knowledge and providing a broad user friendly experience could prove challenging. Please consider that our resources are limited.

MORE IS AVAILABLE HERE ---> http://www.baremettle.com/sg/about/

 

[Ballowers100]

May I just ask why you don't want a CD-key?
I'm fully against CD-keys for the singleplayer part of the game, but if you want to play online (if that option is included) then a CD key is for the better imo.

First of it stops pirates. However the big thing with it, is that otherwise the game will be "free to play" hence I'm imagining a lot of players just joining public servers with all kind of cheats and hacks, generally just ruin the experience.

This is ofc also possible even if you need a cd-key, however I think there will be much less cheaters. Since, if they get banned, they need to purchase another copy of the game.



About the Mod tool. Frankly I think that it should not come in a physical disk, rather downloaded from the site (This is ofc if a mod tool will even be included)

First reason why is that, if BM decides to sell physical copys of the game, having to w8 a few months after release before they start selling them, just so they can include a mod tools, seems quit counter productive. If they want to maximize the sells from physical copy's, then they need to sell them right after the game becomes available.

Well if there is multiplayer won't it run on Dedicated Servers? If it has Rentable Dedicated Servers by the community with a Server Browser List then anyone can join whatever server they want and anyone who rents a server can set rules on how the server is set up. So if there are Dedicated Servers we can rent we can ban or kick cheaters and hackers.

peta97 said there will be multiplayer but will there be Dedicated Servers we can rent? Or will it be P2P or matchmaking type?

Why not include mod tools on a physical disc? Why download from the site? What if I don't want my internet on I just pop in the disc that contains the mod tools and install them then run it and make my own mods on my own free spare time.

Bethesda Game Studios did this when they released the PC version of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind in 2002 when you purchase the physical box it also contains a physical disc containing the mod tools which is the Construction Set. Both discs are included in the physical box the disc containing the video game itself and the disc containing the mod tools.

I don't think BareMettle will be selling a physical boxed version of Sui Generis when it gets released only a digital version. I am simply asking when BareMettle finishes releasing the video game itself then the mod tools later on to later on release a physical boxed version of Sui Generis also containing a physical disc containing the mod tools. BareMettle already confirmed that mod tools won't be released when Sui Generis releases only later on again peta97 explained it. Only once BareMettle gets more resources then it will be worth it to sell a physical boxed version of Sui Generis that contains physical discs 1 containing Sui Generis and the other containing the mod tools. Am I confusing you still or do I make any sense now? CD Projekt RED might do this with The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt I am actually talking to official CD Projekt RED employee about this in a Private Message (PM).

 

[Komuflage]

Well if there is multiplayer won't it run on Dedicated Servers? If it has Rentable Dedicated Servers by the community with a Server Browser List then anyone can join whatever server they want and anyone who rents a server can set rules on how the server is set up. So if there are Dedicated Servers we can rent we can ban or kick cheaters and hackers.

I would guess that if dedicated servers are to be included, then we could run them either p2p with direct connect via IP. Or we could host our own Dedicated servers. (Also guessing there will be some server providers you can rent from) The problem remains though. Even if we can kick/ban people from our servers, cheaters can just move on to the next server, and if, somehow they would be banned from every server, then they could just change ip and continue.

If typing in a 16digit code into the game, that takes maybe 30seconds max, can fix that potential issue, then I think it's worth it. I'm not talking about downloading anti cheat systems, nor any DD/DRM platform like steam. Just a cd-key that would have to be validated by a main server. And you would only have to type it in if you want to play Online multiplayer (So it wouldn't bother those who just want to play SP/Lan)

 

[Rob]

#2. I know Sui Generis does not support Nvidia's PhysX physics engine but will it support Nvidia's TXAA? The PC version of Crysis 3 supports at least 4 different type like FXAA, MSAA, etc can BareMettle Entertainment do this as well please?

BM's solution is even better.

Thankfully, BM are highly focused on producing good graphics, especially given the nature of the devs' previous occupations. Sui Generis won't support Nvidia's implementation of anti-aliasing (although I'd be surprised if you couldn't force it). Even better, Sui Generis has got its own implementation of efficient stochastic supersampling:

http://www.baremettle.com/sg/forums/index.php?threads/graphics-options-capabilities.75/

Tentatively, this promises to be much much better than the hardware solutions offered by Nvidia/AMD. I'm a proper graphics fascist, and I'm sooooo looking forward to being able to see it in person when the alpha is released!!!

 

[Ballowers100]

So I just watched the new YouTube video with the new animations and I have to say Madoc you and your company work fast.

Now onto my questions.

#1. Will you guys add footprints in sand and snow? This would be a nice feature to add some realism.

#2. The water needs some improvement like when the water goes up on the beaches, sand then when the water pulls back into the ocean it should leave the sand looking wet and stuff like algae, dead animals that died in the ocean like birds, fish, etc should wash up on the beaches, clams, kelp, and shells should all wash up on the beaches and we should be able to loot them I saw in the YouTube video you can loot lots of stuff so why not add this little feature as well and since this game is on PC the PC has the power to do all this stuff.

#3. It would also be nice if the Player Character (PC) and NPC's clothes get wet when it rains or you go into water swimming then when you come out water drips off. Snow accumulating would also be nice and sticking to clothes and animals fur.

#4. Fires. It would be nice to actually see fires burn anything that's flammable clothes, foliage like bushes flowers, trees, etc, fur, hair, wood, etc anything that can catch fire.

I know these things will take time. But I think these 2 features would be neat to add I know I want to many things so I don't know how much of this stuff will be possible before release or after release.

Anyone else agree?

 

[fluffydino2000]

Yeah, fires burning and spreading amongst foliage and wooden buildings would be awesome. And I'm pretty certain we'll see burning characters and clothes with thaumaturgy. As for snow, that's one of those things that just might not be in the setting of the game. Although it does bring the point of seasonal changes to the games aesthetic. We know they affect the sky box and so day/night cycle but beyond that we know nothing. All of this stuff is really pretty pointless but would all be great to have. I seem to remember you guys mention things burning but I can't be sure.

EDIT: I checked and Madoc mentions that fires and burning things would be fun, but never specfically mentions any plans to add burning mechanics.

 

[Ballowers100]

Yeah, fires burning and spreading amongst foliage and wooden buildings would be awesome. And I'm pretty certain we'll see burning characters and clothes with thaumaturgy. As for snow, that's one of those things that just might not be in the setting of the game. Although it does bring the point of seasonal changes to the games aesthetic. We know they affect the sky box and so day/night cycle but beyond that we know nothing. All of this stuff is really pretty pointless but would all be great to have. I seem to remember you guys mention things burning but I can't be sure.

Yep they mentioned seasonal changes so I hope there is blizzards, snow, and hail.

Heck it would be cool to see hurricanes, tornadoes, and twisters as well. I don't remember if they said there will be these 3 though. I hope there will be also it would be nice to see them pick up debris and make them fly and then get thrown out. Would be awesome.

Is the skybox fully dynamic rendered in 3D? Do we have volumetric clouds and fog? Or are they textures?

Floods I remember Madoc saying in one of the YouTube videos that water builds up so floods would be nice from rain and tsunamis.

LOL you just game me so many more ideas.