Power suggestions!

CarChuckSG

Member
Im interested to see all the ideas this comunity can come up with about powers and thaumaturgy.
go crazy, no ideas held back! let us simple forum folk make a whole spell book for our bare mettle gods.

The forms of thaumaturgy currently planned are:
Displacement
Energy
Light
Body
Mind
Force

I think that BM should add a power that lets you controll the mind/body of your enemies.
I'd love to take Porky (the ogre) for a spin!
The thaumaturgy forms of this would be: either body or mind.
 

Madoc

Project Lead
This thread could be interesting. I'll give you a rough idea of what we have in mind for each in terms of types of effects:

Displacement
Teleporting, displacing to avoid being hit, conjuring fire, summoning demons...

Energy
Lightning, heating, cooling, electromagnetism...

Light
Producing or suppressing light, invisibility, offensive beams...

Body
Healing, harming, affecting body functions...

Mind
Influencing others, various mental effects, mind control, raising the dead...

Force
Sudden forces, shielding, telekinesis...
 

calithlin

Insider
I'll post a good deal of random ideas, and we'll see if any stick. Into the blender we go!

(For the sake of complexity I will assume there's a maximum of 3 skills that can be combined for interesting effects. More later if that is not the case)


Key:
(?) = Assumption or possibility, omittable depending on further developments.
'Magica' = Shorthand for whatever creatures or objects may be able to influence or detect thaumaturgic forces
Elemental = Fire, ice, electricity or wind based damage or energy.

Double Combinations:

Displacement + Energy:
Weather effects! (Select area)
Tornadoes, thunderstorms, and severe drought (for use against water-based enemies?) what fun! These could be useful area-of-effect abilities that can damage/slow or otherwise affect creatures over time in a targeted area.
Polarity (Select self or ally)
Reduces damage taken from energy/elemental attacks.
Phase Shift (Select self)
Briefly (a split second) turns the player into a gaseous state of fire, electrical, or other elemental energy. If the player shifts just before an enemy attack, and the enemy's weapon contacts the gaseous form, they take elemental damage while the player receives no damage.

Displacement + Light:
Shrouding (Select self or area)
Creates an area of shadow for a period of time, where the player may retreat to become undetectable by certain enemies.
Light Bomb (Select area)
Creates a strong emission of light in a selected area, blinding or dazing creatures close to the source. Dealing damage to undead(?)
Doppelganger Illusion (Select self)
Creates a copy of the player from light that can distract enemies, but cause no damage.

Displacement + Body:
Demon Armor (Select self)
Imbues the player's skin or armor with demonic properties, adding a boost to damage reduction or defense against energy damage(?)
Root (Select enemy)
Displaces a target's lower body into the ground, immobilizing them for a period of time.
Healing Field (Select area)
Creates an area perfectly suitable for humans, increasing health regeneration while within.

Displacement + Mind:
Demonic Pact (Select self)
A demonic force takes control of the player, sending them into a berserker frenzy dealing extra damage, but attacking anything in sight (control given to AI for short period).
Demonic Possession (Select target)
A demonic force takes control of an enemy, causing them to attack everything including their own allies, but gaining strength and becoming more dangerous to the player.
Astral Projection (Select area)
Puts the player in a literal out-of-body experience, where they can scout ahead undetected by non-magical beings. However, in this state the body is left exposed and able to be killed. Other thaumaturge can attack the astral projection to return it to the player's body with slight health damage and leave the player dazed for a few moments.

Displacement + Force:
Energy Charge (Select area or target)
Teleport to a location or enemy, leaving a trail of damaging energy in your wake (think the fire lines from Back to the Future!)
Banish (Select summoned target)
Unsummons creatures, non-corporeal beings, or demons brought forth by thaumaturgic means. If unsuccessful, deals additional damage to said creature types.
Reflective Shield (Select self or ally)
Reflects a set number of projectiles back at the caster.

Energy + Light:
Power Beam (select target)

A supercharged energy beam that deals additional damage.
Morning Star (Select area)
Creates a small sun, dealing heat damage to creatures near it and blinding everything in a large radius for a short time.
Super Sleuth (Select self)
Player emits no heat, no electromagnetic field, and becomes invisible. Duration of invisibility is raised and the chance of detection is lowered significantly.

Energy + Body:
Elemental Buffer (Select self or ally)
Player or ally becomes resistant to certain types of elemental or energy damage for a period.
Elemental Quagmire (Select enemy): Selected enemy becomes more susceptible to certain kinds of elemental/energy damage for a period.
Negative Magnetism (Select self, must wear metal armor)
The player's armor repels metal, lowering the force of impact from all enemy metal weapons for a period.

Energy + Mind:
Instinctual Fear (Select enemy)
Target becomes wary of specific types of energy, losing confidence or taking extra damage against energized/elemental attacks or weapons.
Detect Life (Select self)
Player can detect electromagnetic pulses given off by creatures, much like a shark. Useful for detecting enemies behind walls, corners, etc.
Seize (Select target)
A small electric shock induces a seizure to a target, immobilizing and causing them to deal damage to themselves.Target may lose memory of the character and treat them neutrally if out of combat.

Energy + Force:
Energy Shielding (Select self or ally)
A protective shield that deflects a set amount of energy damage before dissipating.
Projectile Bomb (Hold item with telekinesis and activate)
Engulfs an item held in the air with fire, then launches it. The object explodes on impact. Larger items result in larger explosions, but cannot be thrown as far or as hard.
Energy Wall (Select area)
Creates a wide wall of elemental energy, blocking off paths/escape for a period of time, damaging creatures that attempt to cross.
 

calithlin

Insider
Light + Body:
Purification (Select self)
Heals player's health significantly, plus removes any debilitating effects, poisons, curses, etc.
Ranged Healing (Select ally)
Fires a beam of life energy that heals an ally from a long distance for significant health.
Blinding Burst (Select enemy)
Shoots a concentrated beam of light directly at an enemy's eyes, blinding it for a short period. (Alternatively, can create an area of darkness on an enemy's face, also blinding them).

Light + Mind:
Rebuking Power (Select enemy)
Causes enemies to flee, especially undead or darker creatures(?)
Mesmerize (Select target)
Dazzles the target for a period of time. Doesn't provoke attack out of combat, but can distract creatures during combat.
Darkvision (Select self)
Allows the player to see clearly in darkness, without attracting attention with light. Useful for sneaking in dark areas around guards.

Light + Force:
Lantern (Hold item with telekinesis and activate)
Illuminates an item held in mid air, which can act as a distraction or light source for dark areas (remains illuminated for a few minutes after placed down).
Mail Breaker (Select enemy)
Fires a tightly packed beam of kinetic energy, especially damaging to heavily armored opponents.
Irresistible Light (Select target)
The target glows and an attractive force pulls in nearby creatures. Target is more likely to be attacked by creatures drawn in. Useful for pulling enemies off from allies, signalling to allies an important enemy to attack, or confusing and/or causing infighting amongst enemies.

Body + Mind:
Battlemind (Select Self)
Enhances combat prowess through sheer force of will and bodily coordination. The player can swing faster, remain on their feet, and are more fleet of foot for the duration of the ability.
Mind Over Matter (Select enemy)
Causes an enemy to loose coordination with their faculties, making them sloppier, sluggish, and prone to toppling or flanking.
Posession (Select corpse)
Resurrects selected corpse under the player's control. The player is immobilized and vulnerable to attack, but the possessed corpse can act as a scout or disguise until it decays into a skeleton.

Body + Force:
Witch's Doll (Select enemy)
Player can use selected creature or person as a projectile as if through telekinesis. Target takes damage over time while in the air, and additional damage when thrown.
Human Cannon (Select location or enemy)
Player is forced forward like a projectile, covering ground quickly but also dealing damage and knocking over those in their path or their target.
Critical Strike (Select self or ally)
The next weapon swing is imbued with a great deal of force, causing it to deal additional critical damage if the strike connects.

Mind + Force:
Mental Protection (Select self or ally)
Protects the player or targeted friendly NPC from all mental attacks for a period.
Concuss (Select enemy or self): Sends a powerful mental surge to a selected enemy target that dazes or stuns them with moderate damage. Or, radiates mental force from player stunning enemies with slight push effect.
Stasis (Select target):
Any target selected is frozen in place, unable to move but immune from most damage.


Triple Combinations: Very difficult to achieve, and used sparingly due to collateral damage and recasting time.

Displacement + Energy + Light
Great Demon
For a very short period of time, the player opens a portal imbued with shadow and fire, summoning a powerful demon that deals massive damage to nearby creatures before returning to its home.

Displacement + Energy + Body
Astral Warrior
The player's body becomes ethereal as their very flesh steps between worlds, rendering them nearly untouchable by physical means, but able to attack others. Any creature in contact with the player will be damaged by their astral form until their body collapses back into the normal world shortly after.

Displacement + Energy + Mind
Astral Invader
The player experiences an out-of-body event, and while their main body is still unprotected, their astral form can deal massive energy damage directly to the souls of other enemies nearby. The player will return to their body immediately if attacked if the time does not expire beforehand.

Displacement + Energy + Force
Black Hole
The player rips a hole in space-time by the combination of enormous forces, creating a temporary singularity. The black hole will draw in nearby enemies and friends indiscriminately and deal catastrophic damage to any that cannot escape its grasp before it dissolves.


Displacement + Light + Body
Army of One
By displacing light and their body's physical properties, the player creates six copies of themselves for a short period, but all are capable of inflicting and receiving damage to enemies rather than being mere illusions.

Displacement + Light + Mind
Hall of Mirrors
Six illusory copies of the player are created, but they are cannot be dismissed by attacking them, and will remain to confuse enemies for a long portion of time.

Displacement + Light + Force
Iridescent Familiar
The player summons a wisp-like ball of light that follows them and fires powerful beams of light at any hostile creature for a period of time.

Displacement + Body + Mind
Demonic Double
A demon copy of the player is summoned, temporarily taking the player's place in their realm. The player has full control of the body double, and the player's main body is safe in a pocket dimension. The body double will act and be controlled the same as the normal player. If the double dies or its time expires, the player reemerges from the pocket dimension unscathed.

Displacement + Body + Force
Sonic Boom
For a short period of time, the player can instantaneously teleport anywhere within a small area by clicking the ground, sending sonic booms in their wake damaging any nearby creature.

Displacement + Mind + Force
Mass Hysteria
The player emits a concussive mental blast in a large area. Any creature in the area effected will become disoriented and attack random targets (with priority against themselves) until they regain their senses.

Energy + Light + Body
A Light Shining in the Darkness
For a short period the player's body is engulfed in light that blinds any hostile creature that approaches, but heals allies in close proximity over time.

Energy + Light + Mind
Nightmare Tempest
An large area is covered in darkness that completely hides the player when inside. Any creature inside the dark cloud will be struck with lightning in regular intervals, while the player is free to attack any creature foolish enough to enter before the cloud dissipates.

Energy + Light + Force
Nova
Light and energy compacted together create a chain reaction, exploding spectacularly, dealing major damage to any creature near the epicenter, and mild damage to those at the extremities of the blast.

Energy + Body + Mind
Induce Coma
A pulse of electrostatic energy renders all nearby creatures comatose after knocking them unconscious. They will remain unconscious indefinitely until attacked.

Energy + Body + Force
Inner Sanctum
An impenetrable shield engulfs the player, regenerating their health over time until they are fully healed.

Energy + Mind + Force
Flash of Torture
Any nearby creature is placed within a shield filled with electricity that slowly shrinks. Any creature that survives the death trap is traumatized and is likely to rout immediately.

Light + Body + Mind
Amnesiacs
Creatures within a nearby radius will completely forget all previous history and interactions with the player. Naturally hostile creatures will become hostile again after one minute.

Light + Body + Force
The Binding
All nearby creatures are exposed to a flash of light that reduces their visibility, a slowing effect, and severe vertigo that makes their attacks a fraction as effective as before.

Light + Mind + Force
Poltergeist
To simulate a haunting, the player will become undetectably invisible, all objects that can be affected by telekinesis will lift and be thrown at nearby creatures, and enemies will attack the thrown objects rather than search for the player.

Body + Mind + Force
Stasis Field
All creatures in a nearby radius are placed within stasis for an extended period of time.
 

Madoc

Project Lead
I think some more clarification might be needed here.

While we have often discussed combining different forms of thaumaturgy this would not be the normal way and isn't confirmed. Thaumaturges have one innate form of thaumaturgy, you choose one at character creation making for possibly the most important irreversible build choice. This is the only type of thaumaturgy you will really become good at using. We've also considered a possible "jack of all trades" thaumaturge who is not particularly good or bad with any form but that's another matter. Yet another thing we considered is having a secondary aptitude that would allow using one additional form of thaumaturgy more effectively than the others, this being a choice you make later in your character's advancement.

Another thing we have discussed is effects produced by a number of thaumatuges working together, each using their own innate thaumaturgic power. Again not confirmed.

The explanation of "shaping" your power was intended within one partcular type, the example we gave in update #3 was all based on force:

"you may learn to turn Force Blast into an omnidirectional effect, pushing things away in any direction; you may also learn to make the force highly coherent, thus turning it into a shield. The two things combined may lead you to make a bubble that shields you from all directions."

This describes 3 additional powers given by learning new ways to use the force. Also, rather than having many similar powers, the same power would grow more effective as a character's overall power grows and they may learn small tweaks or additional effects to apply to it. This is one case where we considered introducing effects from other forms of thaumaturgy. Random on the spot example: close someone in a force bubble and displace most of the air to suffocate them.

On a different note many of the examples given above have a more high fantasy magic tone to them than we'd like in SG. Think more along the lines of plausible physical effects (maybe not always that plausible...). Also things wouldn't typically have a simple % chance to cause an effect or have clearly predictable effects, ideally many factors would play in determining the outcome of having used a power.

Long post and yet there's so much more to say on this topic...

Either way, some interesting ideas in there calithlin!
 
Madoc the more you post the more my interest grows in Sui Generis lol. You are the man with the vision so everything you say helps me to imagine where the game is going.

Having always leaned towards magic over hacking & slashing in fantasy RPGs I do hope that thaumatergy can play a big part my experience of the game. Although I do now understand the term low fantasy I'm still struggling to see how it's going to work. I guess it will be a big decision wether or not to use abilities in front of NPCs because it would cause fear & panic among the whole local population. Is that about right?

Cal, wow! What a post. So many great ideas. As Madoc points out though it is meant to be low fantasy. It needs to somehow be done in a way that's never been done before. All I can say is I will be pushing with you for as much variety as possible in the magic system.
 

Venom

Member
  • most spells being based on effects that apply to the physical world rather than single target debuffs/damage
I love it! I can finally make Rubick (from Dota 2) in a game! Make object and enemy levitation possible and I shall love you guys forever!
 

Psychomorph

Insider
Can't really tell what to suggest, can only say that I rather dislike the generic way of using magic in games. It all comes down to math and values. 10% here, -25% there, reduced damage here, adds 5% speed here - not my thing. I'm not doing effin' tabular science calculations here, but practice dark and arcane arts. It is occult, it is not to understand, it is to feel, to focus and to control. There must be more intuition involved. Less numbers and percentages, I hate those. Old RPG's were created by computer/science geeks. Were based on math, grids, tabulators, calculations of attributes and such. I respect that, but we need to move on.

That's all I got to say on the subject. :oops:


As a big fan of lightning myself, I always wished a more true to nature implementation. Basically, speaking about mechanics, you would draw a line from you character to the desired target with the mouse cursor. This does nothing but charges the path to the target (what happens before the lightning strikes in nature, can't explain properly). Releasing the cursor will cause the electrostatic discharge and a massive lightning hits the target, burns its clothes and can kill instantly. The lightning is so bright, almost blinding.
You can charge the air only while standing and you need to draw the line with the cursor not too fast and not to slow or it wont work (simulates concentration and is required for the mechanics to kick in). It is not an insta attack, so it is not for fast accuracy, but for massive damage and shock. You can also draw the line around an obstacle (i.e. pillar), but always away from you (no circle or heavy arc), needs to go from A (you) to B (something further away). Also you must have enough distance for this to work. The charged field must be long enough for a discharge.

Basically, more natural, organic and intuitive, less numbers and %'s in my opinion.


Another thing I am fascinated with is the hidden and occult nature of magical items. Retrieve a sword from an ancient chamber and it looks ordinary, doesn't glow or spark, but the magical nature of the item will reveal itself n due time, or by chance. Stuff like this.
 

Tony

Insider
@Psychomorph:

Ah, so basically you want more innovation instead of copying what has been done in previous games (as I mentioned in the thread I created about this). I like how you think ;)
 

calithlin

Insider
Thaumaturges have one innate form of thaumaturgy, you choose one at character creation making for possibly the most important irreversible build choice. This is the only type of thaumaturgy you will really become good at using.

The explanation of "shaping" your power was intended within one partcular type, the example we gave in update #3 was all based on force:

"you may learn to turn Force Blast into an omnidirectional effect, pushing things away in any direction; you may also learn to make the force highly coherent, thus turning it into a shield. The two things combined may lead you to make a bubble that shields you from all directions."
Ahhh ok... I misunderstood on my first read. I thought that the idea was the omnidirectional effect was a mix of Force and Displacement somehow, so that colored my perception of the system incorrectly.


This describes 3 additional powers given by learning new ways to use the force. Also, rather than having many similar powers, the same power would grow more effective as a character's overall power grows and they may learn small tweaks or additional effects to apply to it. This is one case where we considered introducing effects from other forms of thaumaturgy. Random on the spot example: close someone in a force bubble and displace most of the air to suffocate them.
Just for helping me in the brainstorming process, are these new tweaks/evolutions of the power(s) selected by a sort of branching tree leveling menu, then? Based on a reread of the #3 update, it sounds like you can learn new tweaks to powers from killing other thaumaturges, reading ancient tomes of knowledge, and from practicing new ways to use the power (not exactly sure how that's possible if it's just a click-and-fire ability).

Is only one 'version' of a power active at a time? (That is, can you -either- use a shield, or a force push attack? Or do you use the push by default, and do something special to bring up the shield?)

I think if I understood better the method by which these abilities progress, I could think closer along the lines of what you're looking for with the power variation ideas.


On a different note many of the examples given above have a more high fantasy magic tone to them than we'd like in SG. Think more along the lines of plausible physical effects (maybe not always that plausible...).
Yeah I agree. I was thinking most of what I was proposing would have been something very rarely used. I was generally trying to see what I could come up with based on combinations of the examples you gave but I guess the magnitude I took them to went over the mark considerably.
I must admit that the whole 'summon demons' thing seems a little out of place if it's low fantasy. Can you give us any insight as to how that and Displacement relate? It seems like there's some aspects that are more low fantasy than others. Necromancy and weather-altering effects both seem generally on the same level of 'fantasyishness' but rely on further scientific explanation to move them into lower categories (controlling mind for necromancy, manipulating pressure systems for weather).


Either way, some interesting ideas in there calithlin!
Even though it seems I messed up royally with the first list I hope it maybe stirs up some ideas, even if indirectly. If you can help define limitations and aid me in the idea for the plausible mechanics by which powers progresses (UI wise), I could give another whack at the process.

Sounds like so far there's maybe one or a few different ways to use an initial thaumaturgic power, and the 'tweaks' stack more ontop of that rather than combine.

I'll shut up now hah
 

Synalon

Insider
I'm curious about the extent to which we will have to make decisions between mundane fighting abilities and thaumaturgic powers. For example, it has been said that we will have "precious few skills" - are skills only for things like shields and weapons, or do they also cover thaumaturgy, resulting in some characters being good at magic, others at fighting with weapons, and many combinations in-between.

Or, will we progress in both with no trade-offs to consider?
 

Rob

Moderator
Just to add my two cents on this topic...

As a big fan of lightning myself, I always wished a more true to nature implementation.
I'm really excited to see how thaumaturgic powers will be able to interact with the environment. Of course, the obvious choice of Force Blast has been exemplified, demonstrating that physical powers work nicely with the physics engine.

However, I was wondering about other powers that are physical attacks, but don't rely on rigid-body physics...

Take the example of lightning. Getting hit by lightning would cause your body to convulse shake, and spasm, with residual effects. You would also be burned by electrical heat. If you're wearing metal or wet, the effects may be different/worsened. Lightning may arc. If the lightning strikes water, then it may electrocute anyone standing in it, depending on the body of water. Also, if you're wearing a lot of metal then you will be more likely to be struck by lightning than the person standing next to you wearing rubber shoes, etc. This implies a mechanism for lightning to 'miss' the target due to being drawn to other more plausible targets...

Sure, these lightning ideas are hardly ground-breakingly new concepts, but more generally I am interested to see what sort of realism/innovation Bare Mettle can come up with...
 
I quite like the idea of drawing a line at a particular speed for casting lightning. Making it so that it takes real-world skill to perform a thaumaturgic attack is one way of making the system unique. Every RPG I've ever played has been like you have this skill/ability & in order to use it you press this button or select this option from a menu. By definition Sui Generis needs to take a different approach.
 

Madoc

Project Lead
As I mentioned somewhere else powers will appear in a sort of cloud diagram. Where your innate power is concerned you may discover new nodes naturally, other powers you must learn from other sources such as a dying thaumaturge. Each power will be something you can slot for use with a key or the right mouse button or whatever. So far we've considered "tweaks" more as independent alternative versions of a power rather than something stackable. All this is potentially subject to change though and we appreciate your inputs.

Your ability to use powers is based on the power of your thaumaturgic mind. More power (think we need a better word fo this) allows you to use more complex powers successfully (they might fail, malfunction or be ineffective without) and generally increases their effectiveness. The other major factor is focus. Focus is like stamina of the mind, using powers consumes focus which you gradually regain over time, subject also to conditions.

Powers are used in the following basic ways:

1) Sustained
You sustain the effect (i.e. hold RMB) until you decide to stop, consuming focus for the duration.

2) Immediate
The power produces a one time effect, it might also require a charge up time. Both the final effect and charge up consume focus.

3) Continuous
You toggle the power on and off. While active the power takes up a chunk of your focus.

A possible tweak for a power might include changing how the power is cast.


There are 3 skills dedicated to thaumaturgy:

1) Insight. This mostly reduces the focus cost of active powers

2) Concentration. This lowers the focus cost of continuous powers and allows more of them to be used simultaneously.

3) Meditation. This mostly concerns the recovery of focus.

So, depending on which powers you like to use and how, each of these skills has its perks. The skills will have some other effects and expertise milestones will introduce more varied benefits to each. Without these skills you will find you will have to use your powers sparingly.

As for some powers appearing to be more high fantasy this is largely a matter of interpretation and the lore. Different (RL) cultures have different interpretations of what a demon (or daemon even) is. The people in Sui Generis also have a tendency to call pretty much any apparently monstrous humanoid "demon". "Necromancy" is related to the entire concept of the transcendent thaumaturgic mind which can linger after death. Most living creatures possess such a mind to a greater or lesser extent but only thaumaturges are really able to tap into its power.

We definitely want to introduce a skill element to using powers whenever possible. For example a power to stop someone's heart would require you to target a point near the heart while sustaining the power for a period of time.

Thaumaturgy really is quite a broad topic and there are many factors to consider. Once we have gone into a bit more depth we could try organising all the information as a guideline for the community to make suggestions. We have a lot of ideas for powers but we've yet to really come up with a complete balanced list of powers for each form of thaumaturgy.
 

Rob

Moderator
Once we have gone into a bit more depth we could try organising all the information as a guideline for the community to make suggestions. We have a lot of ideas for powers but we've yet to really come up with a complete balanced list of powers for each form of thaumaturgy.
I agree - it would be a shame for all of this info from the developers, whether final or not, to be lost in the depths of the forum. Whilst appropriate up until this stage, the forum/faq/updates are not the places for this to be document.

My vote is for a wiki. Whenever you're asked a question in the forum that may have general interest, make a page in the wiki, write something, and then post the link in the forum. Eventually, once everything's finalised, the wiki pages can take better shape, but at least there would be something written down already. For example, a lot of the content of Madoc's previous post could go on a "Thaumaturgy" page, under a "Devs' Current Thoughts" subheading. Official info could then move up the page as and when ideas become fact. Sound reasonable?

More power (think we need a better word fo this)
Perhaps. As long as it's not Magic, Mana, or Midi-Chlorians. Were you thinking more along the lines of Competency, Aptitude, Instinct - something like that?
 

Rob

Moderator
A wiki is a great idea Rob. I've never contributed to one before but would be happy to learn & help if I can.
Me neither... much. It doesn't take a genius to edit articles - it's intuitive, and there's always tutorials on how to do it. Although how to establish a new wiki site... never looked into that.
 
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