Put in a saving function ASAP

NachoDawg · May 11, 2015

ShaolinG said:
Every time I see "there should be permadeath" comment, I just wonder how people don't respect their lifetime. It's a great game, but there are other games and whole real life. How many people will start the game again if they lose 10 hours? Not many. There shouldn't be manual save/load, but permadeath is stupid idea too.

Permadeath being stupid depends on how long the game is and what kind of experience they try to deliver. Beating on permadeath for being permadeath is ridiculous. We're talking about Exanima here, and no good exanima player currently spends 10 hours beating the game, so dont say that.

I agree that save/laod doesnt work in Sui Generis as an open world game, but currently as a tiny tech demo, Exanima doesnt fit it either. As an expanded game then sure, i bet exanima will benefit from a save/load'esque thing. My point is that we dont know what Exanima is going to shape up to be, so lets not draw definite conclusions on what is going to fit.

No amazingly good reason to insist on hammering in functions from SG, nor concluding that particular amgibious save/load is the best thing either. Wait and see. If the save/load in Exanima is bad for the total experience or if they come up with something better later then we'll see it. Its still in development.

Nomad · May 11, 2015

Put in a standard and Iron mode and everyone can have fun. Whose who want to bragg can say they beat it on Ironman. If the game is hard, it's stupid to try to beat a full game in one go. Repaying 999 time to get that 1 perfect runthrough. But then I never liked arcade games.
Options is the key. And checkpoints or save stations are the best options IMO.

Nomad · May 11, 2015

NachoDawg said:
Permadeath being stupid depends on how long the game is and what kind of experience they try to deliver. Beating on permadeath for being permadeath is ridiculous. We're talking about Exanima here, and no good exanima player currently spends 10 hours beating the game, so dont say that.

I agree that save/laod doesnt work in Sui Generis as an open world game, but currently as a tiny tech demo, Exanima doesnt fit it either. As an expanded game then sure, i bet exanima will benefit from a save/load'esque thing. My point is that we dont know what Exanima is going to shape up to be, so lets not draw definite conclusions on what is going to fit.

No amazingly good reason to insist on hammering in functions from SG, nor concluding that particular amgibious save/load is the best thing either. Wait and see. If the save/load in Exanima is bad for the total experience or if they come up with something better later then we'll see it. Its still in development.

I agree. It's still very early. I think most of us agree on it to not being easy. I know I don't want it to be easy. I really like the hard combat, but I don't think all the fun is sucked out of it if I have to replay large portions over and over, because of a hard area.

Vold · May 11, 2015

There already is a checkpoint system. What is this all about?

NachoDawg · May 11, 2015

Nomad said:
Put in a standard and Iron mode and everyone can have fun. Whose who want to bragg can say they beat it on Ironman. If the game is hard, it's stupid to try to beat a full game in one go. Repaying 999 time to get that 1 perfect runthrough. But then I never liked arcade games.
Options is the key. And checkpoints or save stations are the best options IMO.

Where's the line between a game being too hard and a player being too bad? I don't feel there's a cosmic rule saying all games has to be accesible to everyone. Just saying things out loud here

Nomad · May 11, 2015

NachoDawg said:
Where's the line between a game being too hard and a player being too bad? I don't feel there's a cosmic rule saying all games has to be accesible to everyone. Just saying things out loud here

I don't think you got my meaning

NachoDawg · May 11, 2015

Nomad said:
I don't think you got my meaning

"If the game is hard, it's stupid to try to beat a full game in one go. Repaying 999 time to get that 1 perfect runthrough"

No, I understood you

Nomad · May 11, 2015

Yes, we are talking east and west.

NachoDawg · May 11, 2015

I understand you're saying that a hard game is not fun for everyone? "option is key" and has already been talked about in this thread and you haven't inserted anything new into the discussion except reasserting what other's have already said, so that's why i'm not addressing that from your comment.

Nomad · May 11, 2015

NachoDawg said:
I understand you're saying that a hard game is not fun for everyone? "option is key" and has already been talked about in this thread and you haven't inserted anything new into the discussion except reasserting what other's have already said, so that's why i'm not addressing that from your comment.

No. Im saying we want a hard game. It's refreshing. There is no fun in easy combat and pushover enemies. Im not really answering you, because I have already written this a few times.

Elaxter · May 11, 2015

See, I actually like dying. It doesn't bother me in this game. I had fun and I don't feel as if I wasted time. Half the fun for me is getting killed in terrible ways. Reminds me of Dwarf Fortress. The name of the game is death, and in Dwarf Fortress, both fortress and adventure mode, you will die. And it's usually bloody and anti-climatic. I like that in games.

ShaolinG said:
Every time I see "there should be permadeath" comment, I just wonder how people don't respect their lifetime.

The fuck? Now I know who not to listen to.

ShaolinG · May 11, 2015

Elaxter said:
The fuck? Now I know who not to listen to.

I'm not a developer, so you don't obliged to listen me. If you think that all people must think in one direction, I have a bad news for you.

Elaxter · May 12, 2015

@ShaolinG I'm calling issues with the fact that you said I have no respect for my lifetime. What the heck does that mean?

J.G. Elmslie · May 12, 2015

See, I actually like dying. It doesn't bother me in this game.

I dont mind dying.

What I mind, is dying, and it going all the way back to the start, and having to do the same damn thing all over again. Pick up the torch, go through the door, turn right, etc etc etc.

That is not fun. that becomes an exercise in repetition, and tedium. Checkpoints at the end of the level certainly help. But lets say you take 2 hours, slowly creeping through the entire place, (not fighting, because you think the combat's a trainwreck), exploring ever place, checking each chest and trunk, etc etc...

And then right at the end, last door, a zombie that automatically attacks spots you, runs up. and you die.

If that's "fun" then you have a strange idea of it. I certainly enjoy something being tough to complete, taking thought and effort. I enjoy it being difficult. What I do not enjoy is watching hours of gameplay like that get wasted, for nothing. I have more important stuff to do with my life than that. (Same reason I no longer play Eve Online. the risk is fun, but I dont have the time for it in my life.)

Elaxter · May 12, 2015

Well there's your problem: you think the combat system is a train wreck. It's a little incomplete, but it's far from a train wreck.

What gets me killed is overconfidence. The last time I died was in a dark hallway after the first locked door. I panicked and tried to run out in the light so I could use a two-hander. I died because I thought I was awesome enough to run full speed down a dark hallway of stuff.

You should just leave.

J.G. Elmslie · May 12, 2015

So people who think differently to you should just GTFO?

Thanks.
Personally, I think you should be the one to do so, because that sort of attitude is toxic as hell - and it certainly doesn't contribute to the growth or development of the game as a product.

Elaxter · May 12, 2015

Well, you do believe the game's combat engine, the main selling point of Exanima, is a train wreck. You don't have to leave unless you really want to torture yourself with the game's obviously crappy combat system.

Nomad · May 12, 2015

J.G. Elmslie said:
I dont mind dying.

What I mind, is dying, and it going all the way back to the start, and having to do the same damn thing all over again. Pick up the torch, go through the door, turn right, etc etc etc.

That is not fun. that becomes an exercise in repetition, and tedium. Checkpoints at the end of the level certainly help. But lets say you take 2 hours, slowly creeping through the entire place, (not fighting, because you think the combat's a trainwreck), exploring ever place, checking each chest and trunk, etc etc...

And then right at the end, last door, a zombie that automatically attacks spots you, runs up. and you die.

If that's "fun" then you have a strange idea of it. I certainly enjoy something being tough to complete, taking thought and effort. I enjoy it being difficult. What I do not enjoy is watching hours of gameplay like that get wasted, for nothing. I have more important stuff to do with my life than that. (Same reason I no longer play Eve Online. the risk is fun, but I dont have the time for it in my life.)

I agree. The game is fun because the combat is hard and IMO really great, but replaying large portins over nad over again is a killer [of the fun].
I like to take my time, but I found that after replaying a few times I stopped even caring about immersion untill I was "back" to the point I died. And I always felt like I was playing some other character, because I didn't find and do the same things as before. It felt like reincarnation - and I mean that in the worst possible way.

J.G. Elmslie · May 12, 2015

Nomad said:
It felt like reincarnation - and I mean that in the worst possible way.

reincarnation - or purgatory.

Elaxter · May 12, 2015

Well, you guys got your checkpoint system you've been crying for.

Quit acting like babies about it. Oooh, playing a video game is so taxing on my soul! Don't sit there and play multiple attempts in one sitting and expect everything to be dandy. I myself spread out my attempts by a couple of days and I have yet to feel what you're feeling. Why is that?