Thoughts and Ideas General

[PipesOfMadness]

I've seen a lot of people push their personal suggestions and ideas into their posts for Sui Generis in the forums. I understand that many of us are excited about Sui Generis and would like to see it implement features we think would be really cool and game-improving.

I wanted to make a thread that would have these suggestions and ideas in one place instead of having them spread across the forums in an unorganized manner. We can also discuss each other's ideas and concepts for SG in here. Let it be a potpourri of the community's thoughts or suggestions so we have an outlet for our roused creativity as a result of the limited information that is disclosed (yet) by BME.

I would like to mention that Team Bare Mettle seems to have a strong personal vision concerning their game, and shouldn't take any of these ideas into consideration per se. This is merely a place for the community to share their fancies.

 

[Venom]

Things I want included:

- Gore / broken limbs
- Modding tools (I'm sure I'm not alone in this)
- Since humans are the only playable race, a very large array of options in appearance customization
- Limitations in magic use ( mana or whichever resource is used to cast spells depletes in a way that you can't abuse spell casting to win all the time [problem like this is seen in Demon's Souls] )
- Others which I shall add after I have seen other ideas...

 

[Nightrise]

Great idea to centralize suggestions PipesOfMadness ! Thanks to moderators for stickying this.

- Multi-player Experience
- Toolkit/Modding Tools for custom content
- Dedicated Servers (player-operated)
- Storyteller/Dungeon Master mode (mostly for multiplayer)

I feel like a combination of these features would truly open the floodgates.

 

[Treason]

Two things:

- Make it very easy to use for modders, I'm really curious to see what people can achieve with an engine like this
- Fully realistic destructible environment (it's 2012 and too few games have this). Something along the lines of Red Faction (no one has done it better so far). If i'm powerful enough to cast a fireball, why the hell can't I blast open a wooden door? (or the whole damn house for that matter!) I'm so tired of invincible buildings!

 

[Valvar]

My wishlist (somewhat ordered from top to bottom):

-Modding tools and access (ability to change) every setting and asset in the game with some effort.
-Linux Support.
-Dedicated multiplayer server support for 50+ players (this would truly be amazing, and perhaps it could be done after the actual game has been relased). That would mean a persistent world which in combination with the modding tools would enable players to host practically any world wrought out of their imaginations.
-First person viewpoint. This for me is vital for the immersion. For me, over-the shoulder and isometric views (or anything other than first-person) are immersion-killers. They put you outside the game and stop you from truly being there.
-Pitch-black darkness. As described in my thread. This is another factor that for me is really important for the immersion.
-Jumping and climbing
-Events that happen regardless of player participation
-Limiting thaumaturgy and making it non-default. This is obviosuly not going to happen as the story probably revolves around it, but it can't hurt to say that I'm not a big fan of having any specific powers by default.
-Special events on special dates and seasons (eg lycans during full moon, rituals at midsummer and/or midwinter etc).
-Conversations that are independent of the camera, as in not cutscenes.

TBC

 

[Venom]

Continued:

- Friendly fire ( for realism )
- Monsters with their own unique abilities. I don't want to see monsters use the same exact spells the player uses because that would simply dumb down the gameplay.
- Monsters that can wield more than two weapons at once. Imagine a situation of a four-armed creature with daggers in each hand being the opponent.
- Monsters that are not anthropomorphic, in other words, similar to humans. The skeletons obviously resemble humans since they are human remains and the ogre still has the same amount of limbs as a human being. Instead of human-like monsters I'd like to see beasts that use fangs, claws, tentacles, objects found scattered around like rocks or even small trees if the beast is big enough.
- TBC

 

[CrazySwayze]

id like to see full loot in multiplayer PvP combat

And pretty much what Valvar said

 

[Madoc]

We will eventually go into this in more detail but for now I'll make a quick list of the things that will definitely not be implemented. We could later break this down into definitely, if we can, no way lists. A surprising amount of suggestions currently fall very neatly into the definitely category and are exactly in line with what is already planned for the game.

Things you will NOT see in our game:

-50+ player support. We really don't think this is feasable for performance reasons. Players are naughty.
-First person viewpoint. Isometric views have their merits too. This is an isometric game.

 

[Venom]

I always preferred small parties in comparison to conglomerates of players going around, so I find this to be great.

 

[Nightrise]

Thank you for the clarifications Madoc! Very excited to hear that most of the above-cited features are up for consideration.

It's too bad that 50+ servers are out of the question, that pretty much shelves the dream of a large multiplayer role-playing server. Hopefully you guys revisit that possibility sometime in the future.

 

[Treason]

We will eventually go into this in more detail but for now I'll make a quick list of the things that will definitely not be implemented. We could later break this down into definitely, if we can, no way lists. A surprising amount of suggestions currently fall very neatly into the definitely category and are exactly in line with what is already planned for the game.

Things you will NOT see in our game:

-50+ player support. We really don't think this is feasable for performance reasons. Players are naughty.
-First person viewpoint. Isometric views have their merits too. This is an isometric game.

Any chance of an over-the-shoulder third person view? I also recommend not removing first person view completely: imagine first person coupled with the oculus rift and the physics of your engine! No matter, if you have a robust modding support than they can try it out and you can keep your vision.

 

[Venom]

imagine first person coupled with the oculus rift and the physics of your engine! No matter, if you have a robust modding support than they can try it out and you can keep your vision.

Jesus Christ! Now that is a bit TOO ambitious. They are limited in resources, as you already know. Modding is definitely the only hope you have, I think.

 

[Barn the Bear]

I don't get the big hubbub about first person... Okay, yes, I like it for some games because it can be immersive. But doesn't anyone remember Baldur's Gate or Planescape: Torment? Fallout 1 and 2? Nox?

Anyways, there isn't much for me to suggest or ask for besides an engaging story and believable characters, which you guys already have planned, so...

 

[Valvar]

I don't get the big hubbub about first person... Okay, yes, I like it for some games because it can be immersive. But doesn't anyone remember Baldur's Gate or Planescape: Torment? Fallout 1 and 2? Nox?

Anyways, there isn't much for me to suggest or ask for besides an engaging story and believable characters, which you guys already have planned, so...

I didn't really perceive this to be in the same style as the old classic RPG's, gameplaywise. I fully understand why the Infinity Engine games were isometric. One of the main reasons was that they were limited tech-wise and the games were (mostly) 2D.
But if Bare Mettle does something in the style of Overgrowth (releases game and the house editor every week), then the chances of modding in first person don't seem too distant. It was done in Overgrowth and, as far as I have understood it, it works great. This depends on the control scheme, of course. I have a feeling that the controls are designed for isometric view (more Diablo than M&B). BUT, as ever, as long as the tools are provided I don't see anything as a problem.
My tip: don't release it as "MODDING TOOLS, EVERYONE COME GRAB". If you do that, then as you say, it'd have to be user friendly or else people would grumble. Instead, release the tools to those who ask and have the ability to figure out how to work them regardless of use-friendlyness and useability. Regardless of how good the game and the story is, people will want to change it. Unless you make a video of the actualy story and and game concepts that completely blow everyone away, I think most of your backers back you because of the amazing engine.

 

[Soren]

I'd like to mirror the suggestion of tools for user-generated content. The procedural approach you have would be amazing for making it user friendly, and this in turn have the potential to spawn a huge community of contributors to the game. The success of games such as NWN attest to that. There's thousands of talents out there who want to tell great stories but are held back by how time-consuming adding content to most modern games is. I'm sure that even the most basic such tools would quickly have a lot of people work magic with it.

 

[PipesOfMadness]

-First person viewpoint. This for me is vital for the immersion. For me, over-the shoulder and isometric views (or anything other than first-person) are immersion-killers. They put you outside the game and stop you from truly being there.

I know how first person is an immersive perspective, but I don't think it fits this game at all. You don't want to miss the force that is being applied on your character and the beautiful physics at work as your character gets beaten to the ground or swung into a bazaar stand. Not only that but look at how dynamic the movement is. If you would be truly looking through the eyes of the character, you would get extremely dizzy from all the movement and falling down you'll be doing. There would have to be a myriad amount of extra coding to be done to get the first person camera working as a passable alternative, and it doesn't seem like the engine was designed with first person in mind.

Personally, I prefer melee combat to be third person because it gives a better overview of what is going on. I disagree with you on that it puts you outside the game. You are very much inside the game, just not in the cockpit of your character's head.

 

[Valvar]

I understand that it would require extra effort that the team perhaps feels is not warranted, and I can get down with that. It should, however, not stop modders from "fixing" it.
For me, it's not me playing the character unless it's first person. Sure, I control the actions of a character and that's nice, but I don't feel like I'm physically there. While not optimal, over-the-shoulder is all right in melee combat. War of the Roses and Chivalry: Medieval Warfare are fine examples of which was more successful (of course many others things are different, but I think the viewpoint is the main difference).

 

[Soren]

Regarding viewpoint and the impact on immersion (the "there-ness") it is obviously a very subjective thing. I can read a book and feel like I'm there despite no direct visuals at all. I feel viewpoint much more comes down to what kind of game baremettle wants to make.

In extend of that - for us wanting to give support with ideas in this early phase - I feel we should be cautious about calling anything broken, wrong or misguided if it disagrees with our preferences. That applies to this discussion as well as the other criticisms that have come already that I feel are a bit misplaced (e.g. the story). Making games are a massive undertaking, and if we want to make sure this one fully realise it's obvious inherent potential we should make sure to be constructive.

 

[Venom]

- environmental hazzards
I know traps have been confirmed, but I want to see natural hazzards such as deep waters (drowning being a hazzard), stray magical forces which can hurt the player, fire pits, etc.

- dodge rolls or rolls when being beaten on the ground
The ogre basically stun-locks the player in part of the pitch video around 9:20. I understand that this might simply be the consequence of fighting at very close range with an unforgiving monster AI, but it still seems a bit unfair I.M.O. The devs probably already have a solution to this through thaumaturgy, but I still want to know about the possibility of this feature.

- long weapons such as claymores, war-hammers and spears
just for weapon variety

-TBC

 

[Barn the Bear]

Regarding viewpoint and the impact on immersion (the "there-ness") it is obviously a very subjective thing. I can read a book and feel like I'm there despite no direct visuals at all. I feel viewpoint much more comes down to what kind of game baremettle wants to make.

In extend of that - for us wanting to give support with ideas in this early phase - I feel we should be cautious about calling anything broken, wrong or misguided if it disagrees with our preferences. That applies to this discussion as well as the other criticisms that have come already that I feel are a bit misplaced (e.g. the story). Making games are a massive undertaking, and if we want to make sure this one fully realise it's obvious inherent potential we should make sure to be constructive.

Yes. Exactly how I feel. I think Bare Mettle is doing a fantastic job, and, again, I fully support the isometric viewpoint.