Thoughts and Ideas General

[Pieparker]

Any chance you could give us an idea on required specs?

That's my only thought.

 

[sunburnedpenguin]

Multi-player should fit into the framework of the single-player game, not vice versa. I'm so glad that this game isn't going to turn out to be another MMO.

Here here! I too am relieved this is a single-player game first, one that can stand on its own without raids, patrols, and the like.

 

[Kaizer0002]

In your fourth update you spoke on the nonlinear nature of the overarching plot, the Kickstarter itself referencing Morrowind. I was wondering how open the quests were going to be, as back then the quest NPC would just say "Hey. Go east from town and find a cave." instead of making a magic arrow guide your path. Regressing to this point doesn't seem optimal, but I can't decide on a happy middle ground beyond allowing people to customize how much of their UI they want devoted to quests (anywhere from overblown to minimal). Some games go with a journal system with notes as opposed to a rigid quest system, but I don't know what the devs have in mind.

The way quests work in most games also tend not to promote characterization, which is bothersome as it boils down to mechanics, ie:

1. an intangible reward (light/dark side points, companion ratings, exp, etc.)
2. A physical reward (money, items, etc.)

What I'd really like to see in a game is where the choice is governed entirely by what you think your character would do, where no matter how you choose to handle a quest, you get an appropriate reward. Issue is if you make rewards based on effort (lazy vs. difficult), difficult will be the "best" solution. If the reward is the same regardless, lazy is optimal. The only offset I can think to this is if there's a hidden timer in the background where events will transpire regardless of the player's interaction. The problem with this also is that if encapsulated, it doesn't invoke a sense of interacting with your world.

Example quest: Witch nearby is doing some nasty stuff. If you snoop around and do research, you can figure out her daily routine and evidence convicting her. You can seek her out and the witch sounds convincingly innocent. If the player collects all the evidence, it seems like the witch is guilty but if they just talk to the witch, they sound innocent. At this point they can either kill them, turn them in to the authorities, or let them go. If the rewards were mechanically equivalent:

• Either you get the witch as a future ally for quests, the constable, or the mob leader.
• Either you get whatever the witch has in her possession from killing her, turning her in, or she gives it to you if you let her go.

That's one example of keeping things mechanically identical, but there are others. For example, if you can get an item reward or a monetary reward, the item could be worth as much as you could buy it for.

 

[Madoc]

This game will not feature rigid quest / reward mechanics. Someone might promise to reward you for completing a task but that's only worth as much as their promise until they deliver. Basically you're free to do anything with the information you're given, you're not necessarily rewarded for doing things. You should set your own goals and decide on the best way to achieve them, hoarding money isn't necessarily of any interest to you.

Similarly just because there's something you can fight it doesn't mean it's there for you to beat it. It's not there to fight you, help you or anything else to do with you, it's just there minding its own business. If you decide to storm a castle on your own or attack a group of thaumaturges you're unlikely to last long. Everything and everyone you encounter has its own purpose, you might find something mutually beneficial, you might even get them to care about you for your own sake or you might find conflict. Either way they will determine what their priorities are and do whatever is in their best interest.

Take the witch example. There is the assumption that you are in fact able to kill the witch, or that the authorities are able to capture her. If she's a thaumaturge she's unlikely to just let either one happen, she will most likely fight for her life or attempt to flee. It's possible that someone might decide to follow you but you'd need to make quite an impression or provide them with a serious incentive for them to abandon their current life to join you. They will then constantly reevaluate whether there isn't something better they could be doing. If they are killed in battle, that's it, they're dead.

Either way, everything here would be very circumstantial, you can't reduce any one event or behaviour down to some mechanic. There are many factors influencing every decision an NPC makes.

That at least is our design philosophy. It's untested though not entirely without precedents, we don't know yet how much we will actually be able to achieve but we have to try. We believe this is what an RPG should be.

 

[Fenlig]

Something I would really like to see is a grab/tackle mechanic.

With the Grab mechanic the player can try and hold onto the swinging arm of a enemy so another player can start attacking while the enemies guard is down.

With the Tackle mechanic one character can charge an enemy knocking him to the ground and his weapon out of his hand.

I would also like to see a hunger/thirst option.

 

[MrIdontKnow]

This game will not feature rigid quest / reward mechanics. Someone might promise to reward you for completing a task but that's only worth as much as their promise until they deliver. Basically you're free to do anything with the information you're given, you're not necessarily rewarded for doing things. You should set your own goals and decide on the best way to achieve them, hoarding money isn't necessarily of any interest to you.

Similarly just because there's something you can fight it doesn't mean it's there for you to beat it. It's not there to fight you, help you or anything else to do with you, it's just there minding its own business. If you decide to storm a castle on your own or attack a group of thaumaturges you're unlikely to last long. Everything and everyone you encounter has its own purpose, you might find something mutually beneficial, you might even get them to care about you for your own sake or you might find conflict. Either way they will determine what their priorities are and do whatever is in their best interest.

Take the witch example. There is the assumption that you are in fact able to kill the witch, or that the authorities are able to capture her. If she's a thaumaturge she's unlikely to just let either one happen, she will most likely fight for her life or attempt to flee. It's possible that someone might decide to follow you but you'd need to make quite an impression or provide them with a serious incentive for them to abandon their current life to join you. They will then constantly reevaluate whether there isn't something better they could be doing. If they are killed in battle, that's it, they're dead.

Either way, everything here would be very circumstantial, you can't reduce any one event or behaviour down to some mechanic. There are many factors influencing every decision an NPC makes.

That at least is our design philosophy. It's untested though not entirely without precedents, we don't know yet how much we will actually be able to achieve but we have to try. We believe this is what an RPG should be.

Sounds amazing Madoc, I agree with you, Sui Generis is how an RPG should be like, I think many people are going to be looking towards you guys, you could possibly have an MMORPG in your hands.

Something I would really like to see is a grab/tackle mechanic.

With the Grab mechanic the player can try and hold onto the swinging arm of a enemy so another player can start attacking while the enemies guard is down.

With the Tackle mechanic one character can charge an enemy knocking him to the ground and his weapon out of his hand.

I would also like to see a hunger/thirst option.

As much as I applaud your enthusiasm, I think some things like this aren't things that should go into this game, it would be too hard to control as a player.

 

[Fenlig]

As much as I applaud your enthusiasm, I think some things like this aren't things that should go into this game, it would be too hard to control as a player.

Perhaps the player could trash about with the controls to try and free himself, or else if the held player had a higher strength than they holder he would break away quite easily. Could even work against you, if you tried holding onto a much stronger enemy he could send you flying to the ground or at your friend.

 

[MrIdontKnow]

I guess everything is up for consideration but it wouldn't suit me, but keep suggesting things!

 

[The Hedge Knight]

Would be nice to see shields work realistically as they would in real life. In most games you raise them and you get a slight reduction to damage taken and the enemy just goes back to slashing. For instance, you could have a heavy steel tower shield (causing you to lumber and stumble in combat) but when you raise it you are practically unhitable. The enemies attempts to slash it will end with them stumbling backwards as they sword smacks off. Maces would dent it heavily and push you back but the enemy will have to work it a bit to dislodge their weapon.

Others, such as wooden bucklers, could be splintered or broken as you fight but you won't be a shambling mess with it. A sword stroke could get stuck in it which you could use to do things like bash them with the shield as they attempt to yank free. It would also be cool to have say, a row of archers on a ledge; so you have to slowly advance up to them with your shield as more and more arrows smash into your shield.

Finally, I hope if something like I have suggested is added; than we do not have an arbitrary hit point level for your shield. If forty arrows hit your shield, you then have a shield with forty arrows in it; it should not just slide off your arm and fall apart on the floor (maybe a wooden one would eventually fall apart if it was hit in the right spots and was made by a shoddy shield maker.) Then shields like steel ones would nearly never break. In order to balance this, they would take time and skill to raise at the right time and your speed for walking and turning is reduced. Allowing the enemies to simply circle you and try to get at your flank and back.

 

[MrIdontKnow]

They have already stated you'll hit something and maybe hav your sword stuck in it, for example skin or wood. I agree with you though, but I think if you block an attack with your shield you shouldn't loose hp but you should be knocked and pushed back depending on what hits you.

P.S +1

 

[The Hedge Knight]

Why of course, only some sort of brute would be able to be perfectly still and that is assuming he is fighting a welp. Just look at videos of the London riots or OWS for instance, tons of protesters of moderate physical build could shove down many highly trained and physically built riot officers with enough force. The shield is not meant to be a quasi fortification for you, it is supposed to be a- well, shield.

 

[Kaizer0002]

A lot of RPGs give NPCs a daily behavior which makes them seem like automatons where everyone wakes up at 6am, works until 5:30pm, dances at 6:15, and fall asleep at 10pm. The Elder Scroll and Witcher series come to mind. The most they might deviate from this is to stand somewhere dry if it's raining. It'd be nice if there was some variation to their routine, even if as slight at +/- 5 minutes. It seems unreasonable to expect a Dwarf Fortress level of personality coding.

Speaking of, I was wondering what the game's time ratio would be. I prefer something close to 1:1 with chances for time to skip ahead on it's own (ocean voyages, wait mechanic, etc.). Otherwise it seems like a waste when lighting changes based on time of year, if time moves too fast it breaks immersion and it is generally accepted in RPGs for the player character to acquire a great deal of skill in a relatively short period of time.

 

[hredthel]

This game will not feature rigid quest / reward mechanics. Someone might promise to reward you for completing a task but that's only worth as much as their promise until they deliver. Basically you're free to do anything with the information you're given, you're not necessarily rewarded for doing things. You should set your own goals and decide on the best way to achieve them, hoarding money isn't necessarily of any interest to you.

Similarly just because there's something you can fight it doesn't mean it's there for you to beat it. It's not there to fight you, help you or anything else to do with you, it's just there minding its own business. If you decide to storm a castle on your own or attack a group of thaumaturges you're unlikely to last long. Everything and everyone you encounter has its own purpose, you might find something mutually beneficial, you might even get them to care about you for your own sake or you might find conflict. Either way they will determine what their priorities are and do whatever is in their best interest.

Take the witch example. There is the assumption that you are in fact able to kill the witch, or that the authorities are able to capture her. If she's a thaumaturge she's unlikely to just let either one happen, she will most likely fight for her life or attempt to flee. It's possible that someone might decide to follow you but you'd need to make quite an impression or provide them with a serious incentive for them to abandon their current life to join you. They will then constantly reevaluate whether there isn't something better they could be doing. If they are killed in battle, that's it, they're dead.

Either way, everything here would be very circumstantial, you can't reduce any one event or behaviour down to some mechanic. There are many factors influencing every decision an NPC makes.

That at least is our design philosophy. It's untested though not entirely without precedents, we don't know yet how much we will actually be able to achieve but we have to try. We believe this is what an RPG should be.

You just summed up 90% of what I wish for in most games. The other 10% is gratuitous violence!

 

[Murf]

This game will not feature rigid quest / reward mechanics. Someone might promise to reward you for completing a task but that's only worth as much as their promise until they deliver. Basically you're free to do anything with the information you're given, you're not necessarily rewarded for doing things. You should set your own goals and decide on the best way to achieve them, hoarding money isn't necessarily of any interest to you.

Similarly just because there's something you can fight it doesn't mean it's there for you to beat it. It's not there to fight you, help you or anything else to do with you, it's just there minding its own business. If you decide to storm a castle on your own or attack a group of thaumaturges you're unlikely to last long. Everything and everyone you encounter has its own purpose, you might find something mutually beneficial, you might even get them to care about you for your own sake or you might find conflict. Either way they will determine what their priorities are and do whatever is in their best interest.

Take the witch example. There is the assumption that you are in fact able to kill the witch, or that the authorities are able to capture her. If she's a thaumaturge she's unlikely to just let either one happen, she will most likely fight for her life or attempt to flee. It's possible that someone might decide to follow you but you'd need to make quite an impression or provide them with a serious incentive for them to abandon their current life to join you. They will then constantly reevaluate whether there isn't something better they could be doing. If they are killed in battle, that's it, they're dead.

Either way, everything here would be very circumstantial, you can't reduce any one event or behaviour down to some mechanic. There are many factors influencing every decision an NPC makes.

That at least is our design philosophy. It's untested though not entirely without precedents, we don't know yet how much we will actually be able to achieve but we have to try. We believe this is what an RPG should be.

I am liking this more and more. You seem to have a great grasp on what is needed to make a superb RPG!
Cannot wait!

 

[Tataubr]

This fantastic game, you should not miss:
1 - Outside the cities, any player can be attacked by another player without the need to accept or not the combat. only attacks, kills or dies.

2 - There should be mine, players can mine their own ore, and make your armor weapons.

3 - should exist skills, for example:

Alchemy: Alchemy Alchemist High Miscellaneous
Anatomy: Anatomy Healer No Action
Animal Lore: No Knowledge Animal Wisdom Ranger
Animal Taming: Taming Tamer Animals Action Low / Medium
Archery: Arcoaria Combat Archer Average
Arms Lore: Knowledge to Wisdom Warrior No Weapons
Blacksmithy: Forge metal items Miscellaneous Smith High
Bowcraft & Fletching: Making bows and arrows Miscellaneous Bowyer High
Camping: Camp Ranger Action Low / Medium
Carpentry: Carpentry Carpenter Middle Miscellaneous
Cartography: Mapping Action Cartographer Low
Chivalry: Path of the Paladin Order No Miscellaneous
Cooking: Miscellaneous Cooking Chef Average
Detecting Hidden: Detect invisible players Scout No Action
Discordance: Discord Bard No Action
Evaluating Intelligence: Assessing Intelligence Wisdom No Scholar
Fencing: Fencing weapon Fencer Average Drilling Fight
Fishing: Fishing Fisherman Average Miscellaneous
Focus: Concentration No Misc Stoic
Forensic Evaluation: Forensic Investigation Detective No Wisdom
Healing: Healing (Medical) Miscellaneous No Healer
Herding: Miscellaneous Shepherd Drive No
Hiding: Hiding Rogue No Action
Inscription: Inscription Action Scribe Average
Item Identification: Identification of Items No Wisdom Merchant
Lockpicking: Breaking Varável Rogue Action [2]
Lumberjacking: Miscellaneous Lenhar Lumberjack Medium / High
Mace Fighting: Combat Mace / Flail Combat Armsman Average
Magery: Mage Magic Misc Average
Meditation: Meditation Miscellaneous No Stoic
Mining: Mining Miscellaneous Miner Middle / High
Musicianship: No Bard Music Miscellaneous
Necromancy: Necromancy Miscellaneous No Necromancer
Ninjitsu: Path of the Ninja Ninja Miscellaneous Average
Parrying: Defend Combat Warrior No
Peacemaking: Calm / paralyze Bard No Action
Poisoning: Poisoning Assassin No Action
Provocation: No Bard Provoke Action
Remove Trap: Traps Remove Rogue No Action
Resisting Spells: Resistance Mage Spells Miscellaneous No
Snooping: Snoop or spying Miscellaneous No Pickpocket
Spirit Speak: Talking with Spirits Medium No Action
Stealing: Stealing Miscellaneous Pickpocket Variable [2]
Stealth: Moving occultly Rogue No Action
Swordsmanship: Technique fighting with weapons rocking Combat Swordsman: Average
Tactics: Tactical Combat Fighting Warrior No
Tailoring: Miscellaneous Tailor Taylor Middle / High
Taste Identification: Identification through taste / flavor Wisdom Chef Nennhuma
Tinkering: Pre-Engineering Miscellaneous Tinker Middle / High
Tracking: Track Action Ranger Nenhhuma
Veterinary: Veterinary Miscellaneous Veterinarian No
Wrestling: Fight with your hands Combat Wrestler Low / Medium

I'll think a bit more and return more idea

 

[Tataubr]

Main feature for the game to be more than perfect:
No need to be level, but enhance skills.

Weapons or items:

The player can use any item, no level restrictions, restrictions must exist in skills eg
Flame Sword - needed 260 points and 300 points of strength agility.

The way is not good, example:
Flame Sword - required level 80. (This is good)

It will be great, power plant ... Do plantations. the player can plant reagents to perform a spell, or something of the genre.

Teleportation stones
Book of Spells
many types of clothing and armor.

 

[The Hedge Knight]

Waaayyyy too many skills man. It would just convoluted things for the player, not to mention things like swords and maces aren't too different in their use (you won't be a master swordsman and then be an idiot with a mace.)

 

[hredthel]

@Tataubr:
Definitely many cool skill ideas but in agreement with Hedge Knight, WAY too many.
Suffice to say: You could easily combine the following into one...

Animal Lore: No Knowledge Animal Wisdom Ranger
Animal Taming: Taming Tamer Animals Action Low / MediumCamping: Camp Ranger Action Low / Medium
Cartography: Mapping Action Cartographer Low
Detecting Hidden: Detect invisible players Scout No Action
Fishing: Fishing Fisherman Average Miscellaneous
Forensic Evaluation: Forensic Investigation Detective No Wisdom
Herding: Miscellaneous Shepherd Drive No
Lumberjacking: Miscellaneous Lenhar Lumberjack Medium / High
Tailoring: Miscellaneous Tailor Taylor Middle / High
Taste Identification: Identification through taste / flavor Wisdom Chef Nennhuma
Tracking: Track Action Ranger Nenhhuma

 

[MrIdontKnow]

I don't know, skills can add more gameplay but its the same thing over and over to get better. Hmmm it's a hard one

 

[hredthel]

I don't know, skills can add more gameplay but its the same thing over and over to get better. Hmmm it's a hard one

If every skill advancement brings new opportunity then the sky's the limit. Realistically each skill needs so much work to implement that I think you create your own diminished returns after all the work scripting and programming.
I would love to see a huge amount of skills but only if they have a serious, dynamic impact. If not, well, then I think it's moot to have so much diversity: making character advancement convoluted.