MrIdontKnow
Insider
There's only so many ways to do certain stuff.
Thoughts and Ideas General
- Thread starter PipesOfMadness
- Start date
Tataubr
Member
It is important to have many skills. if someone does not understand, I can explain better what each skill mentioned can be used and how.
Example.
Sword: Fencing, influences the amount of critical hits, and hit combo.
Mace Fighting: also necessary strength, and good amount of percentage this skill.
Eg
Mace Fighting or Fencing, only example:
85% - Fencing
30% - Mace Fighting: The ability rises in accordance with the use of the weapon by the player, if the player use Mace, Mace Fighting then the skill will go up. if the player use the sword, then the ability fencing will go up too.
Example.
Sword: Fencing, influences the amount of critical hits, and hit combo.
Mace Fighting: also necessary strength, and good amount of percentage this skill.
Eg
Mace Fighting or Fencing, only example:
85% - Fencing
30% - Mace Fighting: The ability rises in accordance with the use of the weapon by the player, if the player use Mace, Mace Fighting then the skill will go up. if the player use the sword, then the ability fencing will go up too.
MrIdontKnow
Insider
I won't argue with you because I'm afraid your avatar will get up and beat me up.
MrIdontKnow
Insider
Don't hurt me :O haha, I better watch my replies, I like some of your ideas, but its like a RuneScape game haha
The Hedge Knight
Member
The skills just sort of convoluted things though, keeping things simple to a few skills make it easier and less daunting for the player; having so many just gets confusing and intimidating.
MrIdontKnow
Insider
We don't know much about the game yet so how will Bare Mettle capture skills or 'things to do'. There can't be just fighting in this game. There's gonna be a lot of content and I can't wait to find out what there is in store for us!
The Hedge Knight
Member
I don't think you need to spend hours picking flowers to be good at it, or days to learn how to cut wood.
Rob
Moderator
Both strategies can work, i.e. simple or complex skill system. In my experience, the skill system is extremely important to an RPG, but it's complexity alone cannot make or break a game. It's more about how it fits in with the game's overall theme and feel. For example, the Witcher has a very simplistic skill system, focusing instead on combat, with "alchemy" and "signs" being the only real major skill types. In contrast, more complex skill systems (or more generally, rule systems) are found in the likes of Drakensang, Last Remnant, and pretty much any D&D-based RPG. Each system seems natural and suitable in the context of the particular game.
Ultimately, a game has to have a clear identity, and ensure that it doesn't stray too far from the intended path. Sounds to me like Bare Mettle have already decided on their path! I have confidence, and certainly have no complaints (...bring on the alpha!!!).
hredthel
Insider
The Staff have already mentioned that they don't intend to focus heavily on making a lot of skills. I think by that they mean simply spamming a bunch of skill levels to progress your character (at least that's what I got from it). I agree with Rob, in which both ways work well, and in which Bare Mettle seems to be working on a very distinct path for this game, and I am delighted to be along for the ride!
Kaizer0002
Insider
As much as I enjoy tabletop RGPs, I am in the favor of a less robust skill system, mainly due to balancing. This comes up in a tabletop context as well where it is the DM/Dev's responsibility to make every skill viable over the course of the game. If you want an example of balanced skill use, look at Pathfinder Organized Play modules. They're dreadfully formulaic.
Let's take the concept of stealth as a skill, for example. If combat ability is viable as a skill, stealth could be a viable alternative to combat or offer a bonus in combat in the form of backstabs, positioning, etc. By making it an alternative to combat the entire game would be set up so that every combat can be avoided or pick-pocketed. Too often when a skill is used to offer an advantage it is balanced in such a way that it is foolish not to take, such as Skyrim where your enemy cannot locate you based on where the arrows are coming out of their body.
I am actually not a fan of stealth being a skill in either of these scenarios, at least in the way it is traditionally done. An alternate method of making stealth a skill could be that it just allows you to remove encumbrance/armor penalties from stealth.
Now, from what I understand of the skill system as it currently stands (Kickstarter update 3), they are combat based (I assume Insight, Concentration, and Meditation are related to thaumaturge). There is a global limiter, meaning if Berrypicking or whatever is added, I might be the world's best harvester but don't let me near a mace. If instead the skills are related only to combat, other noncombat things (crafting, knowledge, stealth, etc) can have gameplay incorporated for anyone who wants to do those things without feeling like they are suffering in combat situations for it. It also means they can have their own mechanics included without following the Inept-Master layout. Are you a lorephile? Feel free to read all the books to get clues of your surrounding world that I can freely miss out on. Same goes for collecting crafting materials.
Let's take the concept of stealth as a skill, for example. If combat ability is viable as a skill, stealth could be a viable alternative to combat or offer a bonus in combat in the form of backstabs, positioning, etc. By making it an alternative to combat the entire game would be set up so that every combat can be avoided or pick-pocketed. Too often when a skill is used to offer an advantage it is balanced in such a way that it is foolish not to take, such as Skyrim where your enemy cannot locate you based on where the arrows are coming out of their body.
I am actually not a fan of stealth being a skill in either of these scenarios, at least in the way it is traditionally done. An alternate method of making stealth a skill could be that it just allows you to remove encumbrance/armor penalties from stealth.
Now, from what I understand of the skill system as it currently stands (Kickstarter update 3), they are combat based (I assume Insight, Concentration, and Meditation are related to thaumaturge). There is a global limiter, meaning if Berrypicking or whatever is added, I might be the world's best harvester but don't let me near a mace. If instead the skills are related only to combat, other noncombat things (crafting, knowledge, stealth, etc) can have gameplay incorporated for anyone who wants to do those things without feeling like they are suffering in combat situations for it. It also means they can have their own mechanics included without following the Inept-Master layout. Are you a lorephile? Feel free to read all the books to get clues of your surrounding world that I can freely miss out on. Same goes for collecting crafting materials.
MrIdontKnow
Insider
It's like a 50-50 for me,
In one end i'd love to have skills other than combat to make money and actually Role Play because if it isn't a skill but more a choice you can just have fun sometimes, I'd prefer the idea to you start in a safe location, where you can chop down the crappest tree and fish some crap fish, which heal barely nothing, and the wood burns too fast and isn't stable, but the best wood, is the other side of the world, which to get there, you have to be pretty darn strong and face hundreds of them annoying regerating skeletons
and orges, because they will fight you if they spot you. I'd like this approach because rather than it being a non-combat and skiller, you have to be a combater to be able to explore new skills and types of wood and that. So it's kind of like a discovery skill, and combat skill.
And then the RuneScape history side of me, and I had the best of the best in that game, spent years on it and haven't gone back to it since about a year ago. Mainly because it's the same, theres no reward to getting to 99 skill level is there? You get a cape, and it will help you maybe get a bit more cash, but you have to spend loads of time, and money (which is a waste really?) to see the same animation over and over and over again. I mean really it's not fun is it. Noone can tell me teleporting 90 Million Times to get 99 Magic is fun.
I think I could like the idea I came up with. Discover to be able to skill, but you can't skill everything till you're good enough to fight.
In one end i'd love to have skills other than combat to make money and actually Role Play because if it isn't a skill but more a choice you can just have fun sometimes, I'd prefer the idea to you start in a safe location, where you can chop down the crappest tree and fish some crap fish, which heal barely nothing, and the wood burns too fast and isn't stable, but the best wood, is the other side of the world, which to get there, you have to be pretty darn strong and face hundreds of them annoying regerating skeletons
and orges, because they will fight you if they spot you. I'd like this approach because rather than it being a non-combat and skiller, you have to be a combater to be able to explore new skills and types of wood and that. So it's kind of like a discovery skill, and combat skill.And then the RuneScape history side of me, and I had the best of the best in that game, spent years on it and haven't gone back to it since about a year ago. Mainly because it's the same, theres no reward to getting to 99 skill level is there? You get a cape, and it will help you maybe get a bit more cash, but you have to spend loads of time, and money (which is a waste really?) to see the same animation over and over and over again. I mean really it's not fun is it. Noone can tell me teleporting 90 Million Times to get 99 Magic is fun.
I think I could like the idea I came up with. Discover to be able to skill, but you can't skill everything till you're good enough to fight.
MrIdontKnow
Insider
So are you agreeing with me or did you not direct that to me?
Granville
Insider
The one thing i'd love to see in this game more than anything, is a well thought out weaponless fighting option based on a real martial art. I know it's probably very difficult to do but i'm tired of choosing the open hand option in rpgs and playing exactly how i would with a sword. i think it would be better if there was more realism to the pen hand skill (ie holding up your fists to block a sword gets your hands chopped off) meaning that instead of blocking and parrying it's up to you the player to dodge the attack and time the counter. Also instead of the only attack being straight punches i'd like to see some variety depending on distance from the enemy and movement of the character. Asking for maybe a bit much but the possibility of an exiting weaponless combat system is immense given the physics engine.
sunburnedpenguin
Insider
Naturally, attacks upon armour from a weaponless attack would either not do much or injure the unarmed combatant. Unbalancing attacks (throws, foot sweeps, etc.) could be successful, though. Once down, perhaps an arm bar could disarm them or force surrender.
Will surrender be an option, or are all fights no quarter contests?
Will surrender be an option, or are all fights no quarter contests?
Cooper Holt
Insider
I think that the skill system is pretty good so far, but I want a rich, diverse experience when it comes to fighting, exploring, leveling, and even just working. I want to be, say... a stealthy, vigilante, cloak-wearing necromancer with a disguise as a miner.
-Cooper Holt (Crouton)
-Cooper Holt (Crouton)
Kaizer0002
Insider
I wouldn't expect everything from one game.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kostaszarifis/kung-fu-superstar-become-the-ultimate-martial-arts?ref=live
