Weapon sheath on the character?

[NachoDawg]

Does anyone else think weapon sheaths are almost mandatory for a game like this?

Rather than swapping weapons from the inventory, we could have weapons on our character body instead. Honestly


Things I would like to discuss

- I think we should have as many weapons on our character as we want if gear-weight is a factor.

- Does this create a too tangible bridge between a really obscure 'infinite bag of holdings' type inventory and a very realistic 'what you see is what you get' avatar with physical equipment attached to his body? Does this break immersion or is the game "gamey" enough to allow this?

- What happends when you hold a torch, and unsheathe your 2-hander from your back? Does the torch drop on the ground or on dissapear into your inventory?
Edit, thought of something. What if we have a dedicated button for dropping/throwing thing in our hand. This would would have multiple purposes like a quick "drop torch", "yield", or drop the weapon mid swing to use it as a throwing weapon. Could work for daggers, axes and spears. maybe covered under a skill-ability.
If we unsheate a weapon while holding something, the item disapears into the inventory. If we have a button to allow dropping things on purpose then swapping weapons wouldnt force you to drop the held item to stop you from accidentaly dropping a quest-item and never finding it again.

- What's really the purpose? I think NPCs would react appropriately if you walk around with a sword in your hand. Maybe guards tell you to put it away in city limits- or try to stop you if you get near an important/protected NPC with your weapon out. There's also of course a slight RP effect to this, and perhaps a community rule-of-conduct thing when online play is in. Point being that it would further seperate your projected intent between being in or out of combat mode

 

[nrage]

I think this is a good idea.

1) I think we should be restricted by the size and bulk of the items.. not necessarily the weight, tho if we have a weight/carry limit then it would apply too.

2) This game wants to be realistic IMO. In which case having a sheath and a quick draw mechanism for weapons is realistic. Opening inventory and taking an item out would be slower, akin to opening your backpack and hunting for the item etc.

3) For realism, drop to the ground. It's also what you'd want, for light.

 

[NachoDawg]

3) For realism, drop to the ground. It's also what you'd want, for light.

I gave this a real think and updated my opening post =)

 

[nrage]

I gave this a real think and updated my opening post =)

Someone else had a good idea for this. Have a button which when tapped drops the item, or when pressed and held sheaths it (or puts it away in the inventory).

For realism dropping the item would be faster, and sheathing/putting it away would be slower.

 

[Anthony Obilor]

Would that be the post below? That is actually me before I bought the game and then realised it links to your PayPal email. I would say I need to do some editing as I thought about it and rethought the first point to fit more into what we already have. I don't think you should throw down your primary weapon. Also I think maybe the dagger could be throwaway, so u have a single use ranged item that can be picked up after the fight. I am really looking forward to sheathing mechanics it adds so much immersion.

Hi guys, I would like to disagree abit on the quick swaps, the idea shouldn't entirely be thrown out but should be streamlined to fit in the immersive and realistic gameplay setting. My suggestion is that the player is able to equip a primary and/or secondary weapon (sidearm), plus a shield and/or touch (utility item). These items are always visible on the paper-doll and the paper-doll would have to physically reach and draw the weapon, it isn't an instant swap/equip.

Let me explain the and/or : Imagine hotkeys 1-4 work as
1: Primary weapon (mainhand) takes 1-2 seconds to unsheathe
2: Secondary Weapon (sidearm, only small weapons like a dagger or small handaxe) takes 1 seconds to unsheathe
3: Shield
4: Torch

Now the system would work like this;

FIRST THOUGHT
There are 2 modes of pressing the button, press or press-and-hold.
Entering combat mode unsheathe's your main hand as usual. Now if you press 2 to switch to ur dagger you throw down your main and unsheathe your dagger. If instead you press-and-hold 2, you sheathe your main and then unsheathe your dagger. It works same way, if you have dagger in hand first. Same works for torch and shield if you are using torch and press for shield, it throws down the torch then pulls shield, holding sheathe's then equips.

Throwing down the what you are currently wielding and unsheathing the next is faster than sheathing and unsheathing, sheathing and unsheathing can also be interrupted so throwing down your torch in time to unsheathe becomes a tactical choice, as well as being fully immersive without the need to use an inventory window mid combat.

*This was an afterthought as I thought of a way to make swapping a torch/shield for a dagger in the off-hand.
With the above system, what happens if you wanted to throw down the shield/torch and you want to equip a dagger on your off-hand?
If you currently have a primary weapon equipped then secondary, torch, and shield are equipped/unequipped to the off-hand. But if you have no primary weapon currently equipped then it equips the dagger to the main hand. If you now unsheathe your primary the character swaps the dagger to the off-hand and then unsheathe's the primary with the main-hand.
This is also closer to the current system as


SECOND THOUGHT
Now as I pondered this system I thought of another way to become more flexible but adds more key presses. This led me to think of a system where you first select what you want to swap and then select what you are swapping it to. e.g.

1. Sword 2. Dagger 3. shield 4. torch

So I am adventuring with my torch out and weapons sheathed, I engage an enemy and enter combat mode which unsheathe's my main hand, with the torch in my offhand (torch should always be on offhand no need to swap it from main-hand as we will almost always have a weapon we can unsheathe). I decide I want to get my dagger out because I am a duel wielding assassin that has pre-coated my dagger in a poison that when I do damage to an enemy they have a worse balance or worse accuracy. But it takes 20s to stark working instead of immediately. But every time u land a blow with your offhand it reduces the time by 3s. But I digress, so to select my dagger I press 4 and then press 2 which throws down my torch and unsheathe's my dagger, pressing 4 and then press-and-hold 2 sheathes the torch and then unsheathes the dagger.

This system would probably need more muscle memory and would take a tiny bit longer as it takes 2 keys to swap rather than 1.

 

[Tovias]

Totally agree, mostly because my club keeps getting stuck on stuff while moving around

 

[Nomad]

I have been thinking the same thing.

 

[Zotis]

I agree that a sheathing mechanism would be great. I think I like the whole infinite bag of holding for a game mechanic. But it would be cool if when you equipped a weapon instead of going into your hand it appeared on your body in a sheath. It would also be nice if you could then strap on several weapons (like one on each side, one on your back, a knife on your thigh, throwing daggers on your chest, etc...). Then you could select which to draw with the number keys. Throwing weapons is a good idea too.

 

[Nomad]

Yes, that sounds like a good idea. Press 1,2,3,4 for different equiped weapons

 

[NachoDawg]

I agree that a sheathing mechanism would be great. I think I like the whole infinite bag of holding for a game mechanic. But it would be cool if when you equipped a weapon instead of going into your hand it appeared on your body in a sheath. It would also be nice if you could then strap on several weapons (like one on each side, one on your back, a knife on your thigh, throwing daggers on your chest, etc...). Then you could select which to draw with the number keys. Throwing weapons is a good idea too.

Completely agree! Just as I fantasized it

 

[Tovias]

I agree that a sheathing mechanism would be great. I think I like the whole infinite bag of holding for a game mechanic. But it would be cool if when you equipped a weapon instead of going into your hand it appeared on your body in a sheath. It would also be nice if you could then strap on several weapons (like one on each side, one on your back, a knife on your thigh, throwing daggers on your chest, etc...). Then you could select which to draw with the number keys. Throwing weapons is a good idea too.

I loved doing this in Skyrim with that one mod that allows showing all the equipment you have in favorites. I would carry my sword, my axe, my dagger, my bow, my arrows, etc, etc.
Nothing better than a cumbersome get up.

 

[piotras]

Sounds neat, but wouldn't that act as additional protection (for example a shield or 2-hander on your back)?

 

[NachoDawg]

Sounds neat, but wouldn't that act as additional protection (for example a shield or 2-hander on your back)?

Id Hope so. A big clunck of metal should do its part

 

[J.G. Elmslie]

(for example a shield or 2-hander on your back)?

I would suggest avoiding the 'sword on the back' trope at all costs.

Go look at any _film_ with the hero carrying a sword on his back. Blade. the later highlander films (if you're a masochist) etc. the character will grab the sword, you get part-drawn... and cut! its a different camera angle, Sword out. In videogames, its always a clipping mess, or a sword that's magically connected to the shoulder by magnets.

Why?

Because unless the sword-blade is less than just 50-55cm (22"), back scabbards don't work. your arms, shoulder to palm, are only about 60cm, and that length shortens slightly when your shoulder is pointing up (all just through the way the joint and collarbones move). And of course, you need a little bit of that length to hold onto the handle.

In historical terms, they simply weren't used. If you've got a 2-hander, it wasn't carried on the back, it was carried over the shoulder - or on a cart. Even a 1m 25cm long longsword can be worn comfortably on the hip, and drawn rapidly in one single movement.

 

[Anthony Obilor]

Sounds neat, but wouldn't that act as additional protection (for example a shield or 2-hander on your back)?

That is why it is better gameplay wise to have a limited number of items that can be equipped on the paper doll, so shield on back when you have a 1 hander, but with a 2 hander, the 2 hander is equipped on back so no shield.

 

[Anthony Obilor]

Edit:double post

 

[Anthony Obilor]

I would suggest avoiding the 'sword on the back' trope at all costs.

Go look at any _film_ with the hero carrying a sword on his back. Blade. the later highlander films (if you're a masochist) etc. the character will grab the sword, you get part-drawn... and cut! its a different camera angle, Sword out. In videogames, its always a clipping mess, or a sword that's magically connected to the shoulder by magnets.

Why?

Because unless the sword-blade is less than just 50-55cm (22"), back scabbards don't work. your arms, shoulder to palm, are only about 60cm, and that length shortens slightly when your shoulder is pointing up (all just through the way the joint and collarbones move). And of course, you need a little bit of that length to hold onto the handle.

In historical terms, they simply weren't used. If you've got a 2-hander, it wasn't carried on the back, it was carried over the shoulder - or on a cart. Even a 1m 25cm long longsword can be worn comfortably on the hip, and drawn rapidly in one single movement.

I didn't know this, well there has to be a balance between realism and gameplay. The devs aren't making a medieval, authentic simulator and as much as we would like animations for everything, perfect combat maneuvers, and other stuff, not everything is feasible. A balance must be struck, and I'm not necessarily saying 2handers on back is the answer, but I doubt we wud be pulling a cart around or unsheathe our swords from a horse, it is just too much from a gameplay standpoint. So what would be a good way to handle sheathing of 2handers from a gameplay perspective?

 

[Don Kanaille]

Sounds neat, but wouldn't that act as additional protection (for example a shield or 2-hander on your back)?

Carrying a shield on your back is a bit cumbersome in battle, and a two-handed sword cannot be drawn from the back - unless you remove the sheath/holster completely, which is against the intent of a quick draw. Sorry, anything larger than a longsword would just have to be shouldered, unless you want to defy human anatomy or the laws of physics.


Edit: looks like someony beat me to it.



The answer is, you dont sheathe two handers.* Or polearms or long axes for that matter. Simple as that. You carry them over the shoulder or keep them at home. If you want a weapon which you can easily carry around and have your hands free, take a smaller one.


I´m not arguing for this because I think the game needs to be ultra realistic in all matters, but given that physics and character animation are such a trademark of the game and the engine, Bare Mettle shouldn´t put something in which violates these two so harshly.



* You can wrap them in leather to prevent accidently cutting yourself and others, but you cannot holster them in a way which allows you to draw them quickly.

 

[J.G. Elmslie]

Other than that, I'd love to see scabbards - or particularly, swords and scabbards as part of an overhaul of the inventory UI system, as better items - so a crappy, beat-up old sword without a scabbard cant be carried at the hip, while a good-quality sword, with a scabbard to fit becomes an asset, because it can be carried.

(and, I'd like to note, a well-made scabbard fits like a glove, such that a sword it wasn't made for often simply wont fit in at all)

I'd also note that scabbards should be highly decorated in many cases, giving another flash of colour to the setting.

 

[J.G. Elmslie]

So what would be a good way to handle sheathing of 2handers from a gameplay perspective?

Have it carried on the shoulder. Same as a polearm. Equip a different weapon, and you drop the twohander/polearm.

like Durer's illustration of Gallowglass mercenaries on foot - one with sword, one with a polearm:

Personally, having that, instead of the magnetic magic back scabbards would be refreshingly different to see.