Most frustrating experience I've ever had in 20 years of gaming lol

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Kaladin

Member
Its really simple: you get good and you dont need any save game.

Thats the fun of the game. Have you ever felt the adrenaline when you are about to die and lose all you have made? You should experience it at least one time, this game offers it.
I've got 32 hours on this game, most of it spent practising melee on Arena. You're assuming that I'm bad at the game and that's why I criticize it, but it seems to me that when I play Exanima, I tend to make short work of the AI. So I don't criticize because I'm not succeeding in the game; I am. I criticize because I see some qualities that I feel are lacking and, if improved, could rake in more audience --> more sales --> bigger game developer studio --> everyone profits.
 

Homiccus

Member
I criticize because I see some qualities that I feel are lacking and, if improved, could rake in more audience --> more sales --> bigger game developer studio --> everyone profits.
Not everyone and everything profits. The game suffers. The vision suffers. The immersiveness suffers. The core idea of Exanima and Sui Generis suffers. There is already a stupid compromise made for Exanima, I do hope Sui Generis will be more uncompromising.
Remember what happened to Elite: Dangerous? People that supported the project from the word 'Go', had high hopes for a remake of Frontier: First Encounters with new graphics and technology. Then Braben decided to make more money, made decisions based on popular vote and turned it into a grindfest-MMO. I couldn't get a refund fast enough.
I am sorry Kaladin, but you keep repeating yourself, many times, on many threads. How many tiimes have you been answered? Respectfully or not? Three? Four? And yet you keep saying the same thing as if repeating it will make someone change their mind. This is irritating, to say the least.
Yes, the community comes across as stuck up and unforgiving. Yes, the developers are set in their ways. Yes, the answers are rough and short... and there is nothing wrong with it. Read the older threads - these guys had to stick up for the developers' decisions many times before and defend themselves against many 'brilliant' ideas. I'm new here and I'm not surprised.

One more thing I'd like to say, if I may. I've been burned so many times before, thanks to development decisions that pandered to the majority of the gamers (your favourite word - 'mainstream') and aimed at increased revenue ('more sales') that when I find an uncompromising developer, whose ideas speak to me or coincide with mine, I glue my lips to their ass and not let go. I respect Bare Mettle for their resolve to make a game they want and they say they do.
 

Angeleyes

Member
I criticize because I see some qualities that I feel are lacking and, if improved, could rake in more audience --> more sales --> bigger game developer studio --> everyone profits.
Being a part of many niche communities in the past I can say with certainty that responses like this is what triggers niche audiences. I skimmed this thread and I am not condoning name calling or hostility from anyone of any type. That is never necessary.

Understand that responses as quoted above, while are innocent in themselves are actually extremely threatening to said targeted audience. In niche tongue that is translated, "Make this game like every other."

If I could anticipate your response to this, it would be "My suggestion doesn't effect anyone negatively, everyone is still free to play the game as they chose."

The issue with such systems as a save system is when given an inch it becomes a ruler. In other words if a punishing death system is optional, the game as a whole is stripped of it's identity.

Typically games that are built to be punishing or challenging in any way, (PvP/full loot/permadeath/NoSaves) the game is usually built from the ground up with these systems in mind and ultimately at it's core. From beginning to end every piece of content or feature injected into the game has these systems at their center. These systems are in place the way the devs want their game to be played.

I assure you they were aware of the threat that this could potentially bring to consumer consumption. It's why they admired so strongly by some. They are putting their necks out there at least in a small sense, to feed the hungry Gamer audience that really isn't fed anywhere else.

I noticed on steam reviews a common complaint is the movement in the game. Are BM really to build as many movement systems to please every single person who will purchase the game? That's obviously impossible.

I hope you have not taken this as an attack, It's a road I have been down a thousand different times on a thousand different video game forums, I only hope perspective can answer why clashing of heads happen.
 

El Maco

Insider
What @Angeleyes said. However, I don't think anybody should worry about Bare Mettle compromising their vision and making the game more accessible (e.g. by sacrificing gameplay elements for the sake of higher chance of appealing to a wider customer base). Its just not going to happen.
 

Kaladin

Member
Hmm. Yes, that makes sense. I don't take the games I play as seriously as most niche audiences tend to, I suppose, but it's not up for me to criticize others for having a more serious mindset on what kind of game they want to play. As far as that goes, I agree with you.

I hope that this game becomes a big hit once it's released; it would certainly inject something fresh into the mainstream of gaming.
 

Syllabear3

Member
I've got 32 hours on this game, most of it spent practising melee on Arena. You're assuming that I'm bad at the game and that's why I criticize it, but it seems to me that when I play Exanima, I tend to make short work of the AI. So I don't criticize because I'm not succeeding in the game; I am. I criticize because I see some qualities that I feel are lacking and, if improved, could rake in more audience --> more sales --> bigger game developer studio --> everyone profits.
By making the game a generic easy game. No thanks.
Ive seen so many games droping for the money and getting absolutly destroyed... yet you want this to be one of those. You are insane.

Anyways, implying it wont sell... just look at dark souls sales. You die just by breathing as everyone says. You may have your infinite lifes, but here you survive just with 1 if you are good enough.

Here my second main (or first now) character:

Ive been creating characters to find chain coifs, and look what ive got.

If you create multiple characters your chance for reaching higher levels will increase. Just push your less dressed characters first to explore and aknowledge risks.
You dont need any save game when you use a bit your head.

As a longtime lurker here, I feel comfortable pointing out that there are no real mods here. They've only recently tried to keep the forum slightly cleaner, but even that is mainly removing ad bots. In most other forums I've looked at, some of the things you've said in the past, Syllabear, would have gotten you banned.
I did get banned.

Third post and despising mods... wow.

Mods please this guy is ruining my forum posting experience.
 
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I don't despise mods. I just pointed out that they're not really moderating all that much. Probably because they're too busy actually making the game, so it's not too big a deal.

It's interesting that you say I'm ruining your forum posting experience (a joke, I assume), considering you were almost as rude and irritating as your dreaded Maciejos when you first started posting here. Is getting banned what finally taught you to be polite?
 

Syllabear3

Member
I don't despise mods. I just pointed out that they're not really moderating all that much. Probably because they're too busy actually making the game, so it's not too big a deal.

It's interesting that you say I'm ruining your forum posting experience (a joke, I assume), considering you were almost as rude and irritating as your dreaded Maciejos when you first started posting here. Is getting banned what finally taught you to be polite?
Now trying to act like a good boy after being pointed. Nice try harasser.

Mods please this guy is trying really hard to make me feel bad.

ps: Wait a minute, you are posting like maciejos and you seem pissed with my signature. Can it actually be that you are him???
Why did u come back?

Gasp , is that? could it be? Syllabear uses Armor?
Who did say i dont use armor???

Can we just say that this game is meant for a select few "hardcore" gamers?
Is not hardcore anymore. And sui generis will be even less hardcore.
 

Mowglia

Member
But... She managed to get a hit on me that dropped me... dead... 0 health left.

Now my save game was deleted.

It was actually a conscious design decision to almost randomly delete people's save games?
Death is almost impossible when you know what you're doing.

Arena Mode; Some people say don't fight with your Main, although personally I never had a problem and never lost a Main after over 700 hours playing. There are some things to remember though:

1) Buy a Recruit and use that to rank up to whatever, preferably Master. Then buy the absolute best gear for your preferred loadout at each rank and put that on your Main (before you start using the Main properly).

2) Never fight in Inept/Aspirant matches unless you have to (i.e., you're ranking up for the first time with the relevant character). If you really want to minimize risk you could rank up to Novice using Pugs. Even Master rank characters can die in Inept/Aspirant matches.

3) Buy more Recruits and alternate between them (and Hirelings) to keep their health high.

4) If you're using the Main or a Recruit and take more than 50% red damage just hit Escape and Forfeit the match.

Personally at this time my strategy is to use the Main, 3 Recruits, 4 Hirelings and a Merchant. I use a Recruit to get the initial cheap gear, then once I've got a few sets of decent early-rank gear start using Hirelings to farm gold to pay for more expensive gear. If done correctly (with caution, minimizing risk) then death is virtually impossible.

Story Mode; Is somewhat different, but the same basic principles apply. Grab gear before you start getting into dangerous fights. Personally I pretty much run straight to the Armoury on Level 2 to gear up before I even start fighting.

It's been a while, so I may be misremembering this, but I seem to remember (optionally) heading straight to the Armoury on L2, then straight to the Portal at the end of L3 to save the game. Then backtracking to clear areas and grab loot, returning to the Portal periodically to save.

I don't remember if we can only save at the Portal once or multiple times, but either way, once you have a save at the Portal then getting decent gear (i.e., good enough to avoid death) is exceptionally easy.

Of course you might not want to game the system like this, but even so, the principle of gearing up before getting into fights will save you a lot of damage (and death) in the long run.
 

Syllabear3

Member
Pff... nowdays is so easy... you have the ogres for money, the merchant for what you want. Before it was 1 gold per match once in 3-5 games and random stuff in the market. And i had it all before the boost.
 

Kaladin

Member
Well, you could do Inept and Aspirant matches all day to make it a bit more challenging for yourself. Those are the ones with the most risk involved, after all. I tend to have the most trouble with those, especially Inept - with Aspirant you tend to have enough mobility and combat skills to pretty much guarantee victory. And from what I've seen, the Ogres aren't sure fights either - there's plenty of room for anything to happen, when the opponent is a huge beast wielding a two-hander with massive reach. Who knows, maybe you'll come across a particularly hardy Ogre and lose your entire party ;)

While the introduction of the Merchant does bring down the overall difficulty of the game (by very little, I'd imagine), that's not all there is to the addition. The miniscule drop in difficulty does not mean that actual gameplay is less difficult, in terms of the enemies you face and so on - it just means that the mechanics of gameplay have become more user-friendly, which doesn't go against the ideals BM are going for. It means that there's less waiting around for the items you want to pop into the merchant screen. Of course, you can still opt out of the Merchant entirely if it's not to your liking, since hiring them is optional. But overall I think Merchants are a good common sense addition to the Arena mode. They simply make getting decent gear faster.

Perhaps there's a legitimate worry about a snowball effect here, though. If gearing up your warriors becomes much faster with Merchants, then can the AI keep up with the suddenly stronger player? To keep the same difficulty level, perhaps AI need some kind of buffs to compensate for the powering up of the player.
 

Syllabear3

Member
Is not more player friendly, it is easier. There is a big diference between those two.
You get now gold absurdly faster, you get your gear absurdly faster.
Im dressing four of my hirelings full exceptional and completing an exceptional coloured armour. How can you call that friendly but not easy?
I am okay with it anyways. It gets boring when it gets farmy to get what you want... they have made the right choice.

Losing against ogres is very rare... unless the ogre starts comboing you non stop there is nothing it can do to kill you. There is at least 95% of winning ogres and 100% for winning master ogres.
Master ogres matches need rework because its free gold. Two vs one ogre or three vs two ogres. Ogres needs to be max impact (i would say double it, not sure if it can be done), crushing and piercing. They shouldnt have weak points, but being fully covered by metal. Then it would be worth fight for 12 free gold.
Right now they can throw me all over the arena in their entire life spawn and they wont kill me or any of my hirelings, not even with their most powerful over head hits.
 

Iscandar

Member
One way to improve the difficulty of beast fights would be to add damage upon bodies impacting a surface. The beast flings you around a lot, but does it ever do any damage? Not really.

It's slightly underwhelming to see the beast tap you on the body with his stick and yet do a great deal of damage, yet throw you across the room for no damage whatsoever. It would definitely by brutal to see someone flung up against a wall and be knocked out, or for someone to hit their head so hard that they just die on impact.
 

Tony

Moderator
One way to improve the difficulty of beast fights would be to add damage upon bodies impacting a surface. The beast flings you around a lot, but does it ever do any damage? Not really.

It's slightly underwhelming to see the beast tap you on the body with his stick and yet do a great deal of damage, yet throw you across the room for no damage whatsoever. It would definitely by brutal to see someone flung up against a wall and be knocked out, or for someone to hit their head so hard that they just die on impact.
Environmental damage was disabled quite a while ago since it was causing all sorts of unintended behaviors and issues. If Bare Mettle were to re-enable it then they'd have to do a significant amount of work to ensure that it functioned properly so I wouldn't expect to see it any time soon (although it would be nice in some situations like the beast matches mentioned above).
 

Elaxter

Insider
@Syllabear3 You seem to be missing the point of Exanima/Sui Generis. It's not supposed to be a super hard and challenging slog of a game 100% of the time. As the team makes improvements, the game will naturally be easier to control. You remind me of the crowd of hardcore and experienced Souls players - ones who made it to NG+++ - that whined that the newest Souls title was easier. You're better at the game.
 

16iclark

Member
@Syllabear3. . . You're better at the game.
This is exactly how I feel too, we've all just gotten better!

I remember when I first played this game, back when there was only story mode and the practice arena, took me ages just to get past the first guy in the novice arena, the guy with the club. A CLUB. And now I can make it through the novice and even expert naked. (Expert is obviously more difficult to do that but still possible) It took me hours of playing to build up the right techniques to beat the AI, fighting in this game does require a certain degree of skill after all, which is AWESOME.

Making it harder than it already is would really be challenging towards the newer players. (Unless they're an Exanima prodigy child or something) And I do think that the current version of the game's AI is harder to beat than way back when I first started playing.

To me, the AI difficulty is just right. Yes, it may be relatively easy for me to cut through anybody really, but that's because I'm experienced. We're experienced. Like Elaxter said, we just get better.
 

Syllabear3

Member
Everyone gets better.
But, there are players who enjoy a challenge, and players who just type -whosyourdaddy.

It seems extreme at some points, but if something i have learnt playing this game is that you can do it if you try. I am not super player, i just joke about it... and i could make all the content from the game.
The rest is just excuses to my eyes.

Pff, i can still remember those comments about "i want a super story", "i have troubles with the camera"... and i can see how it will end trying to please those peoples: "bah the story was awful"... "game was too hard because i couldnt move the camera, i droped". "The lights in the game are poor, i cant move where the torch is to fight because i got insuficient IQ".

@Syllabear3 You seem to be missing the point of Exanima/Sui Generis.
Please explain me, i may be missing it completly.
 
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