~30 Hour Mark Impressions

[Augur]

Hello folks! I'm a HEMA nerd, a lifetime member of the HEMA Alliance, and go to train weekly/compete in tournaments. I train in Armizare from Fiore dei Liberi primarily. I really like this game, it scratches my fencing itch when I don't have a friend to hit in the face with a federschwert, lol. I am really excited about Sui Generis now... despite all my efforts of trying to mod Skyrim to be more immersive and difficult, the end product never hit the mark like Exanima has. Please not that I haven't beaten the story or gotten into ogre fights in the Arena yet.

I'll preface my list of things I think would improve the experience of the game by saying that, I have attempted to make sure most of what I bring up hasn't been discussed to death, but I have a 60-hour work week with the majority of my extra time taken up by exercise and HEMA. I may not have seen some things while I was flipping through forum pages. Sorry in advance.

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Overall the combat feels fine, however it is slightly "underwater". By this I mean that attacks are thrown out too slow -- overheads and thrusts in particular. It is uniquely aggrovating to not be able to land a decent overhead on a fallen foe's face before they get back up. The speed of overhead strikes can be slightly augmented through crouching, but as they are, they mainly serve as feign-bait for my slashes. Even if it has to be a difficulty option that modifies the timescale of combat physics, I would really enjoy some faster paced combat. Preferably, I would like the animation to "coil", then "snap" outwards, so that you can see what's coming but the actual strike is quick.

Spoiler: Thrusts

Thrusts are honestly godawful in their current state. One-handed swords, and daggers especially, seem to thrust decently if used with good footwork. The metal spike in the beginning of the story is my go-to weapon for a good while. Thrusts with other weapons are unreliable, and in general very ponderous. In general, I've had weapons other than daggers "skip" off enemies' faces and bodies without dealing any damage.

Spears in particular should have very quick thrusts, as their main advantage is their range (Though in Exanima the non-winged spear is still a bit short.) and having a such slow thrust (Their main attack, damage type) allows enemies to quickly remove any threat to themselves.

Two-handed sword thrusts shouldn't be half-sworded. Doing so removes any advantage of having the extra reach of a longsword compared to a dagger. I think you can actually thrust further with a dagger than a longsword in this game, which is a very odd design decision.

There is also little reason to half-sword without having grappling implemented -- half-swording is a means to be able to better parry polearms, hit helmeted opponents with the quillons/pommel (Mordschlag) or, in this case, essentially turn your longsword into a dagger with extra grappling leverage.

Spoiler: Tactical Hugging

One really odd-looking, reoccurring thing in combat is the mid-bout hug-fest. This happens particularly with shield bearing, aggresive opponents. I think having seperate push and kick attacks would help this out a bit. Pushing would throw your arms out with your weapon and make the enemy get off of you. Kicking would be riskier because a cut to the standing leg could send you down, but if you land it your opponent would buckle at the waist and be pushed back, possibly onto the floor.

Spoiler: Predictable Retaliation

Whenever I hit an opponent, unless they stumble and I'm able to retreat out of their measure, they will absolutely with certainty swing at me. This means that I once I hit an enemy, I swing again to possibly score another hit, and do so until they end up blocking me or if I miss. It would be beneficial to have less predictable reactions to being struck, like retreating backwards, trying to run past/behind you, or kicking/pushing if implemented. This would encourage even more active opponent observation, something this game encourages already.

Spoiler: Shields

I've seen other posts about keeping shields from eliminating all momentum from a weapon, and I agree. I often end up hitting just a corner of a shield when trying an overhead strike with a polehammer, and be completely thwarted and whacked in the gut as a response.

Spoiler: Footwork

I think that the advances and retreats that the characters do in combat mode could use a little bit of smoothing out. Even when tapping WASD, the characters cross their feet with a passing step, even if slightly. This makes them wobble a bit and look unstable because, they actually are in that moment; as their feet cross, there's less space between the feet meaning a less stable stance. The human body physics in this game are pretty good.

I think that the WASD taps should be "Fencing steps", meaning to go forward, front foot steps forward then back foot catches up; vice versa for a backwards step. This keeps the feet roughly equidistant during travel, so stability isn't affected as much. A WASD hold would be a passing-step lunge good for striking when just out of the enemy's range.

Spoiler: Economy - Points and Coins

I've noticed that with the longswords there are differing prices for each of the grades, but they still have the same amount of points required for Arena loadouts. I think that with each armor and weapon grade should have corresponding point and coin values. Do you really need that helmet to be exceptional, or would you rather settle for a normal grade helmet but have a better sword?

Spoiler: Camera Lock

I know that a lot of people, including the developers, enjoy the camera as it is and insist that it promotes a greater amount of precision than having it glued to your character's back. I'm unfortunately a creature of habit, and still think that being able to click my middle mouse button on an enemy to lock the camera on them ala Dark Souls I would be much happier than having to constantly readjust the camera because I can't deal with my character being in wierd spots on the screen.

That's all that I can think of at the moment, please don't crucify me. I made the wall of text because I love the game.

Edit: Forgot one!

Spoiler: Asymmetrical Armor Equipping

It'd be really nice to have the option to eschew a gauntlet, vambrace, couter, and/or spaulder on one arm in case the character is a shield user. I suppose cuisses, greaves, and sabotons could be under the same rules though there's not much reason to not have symmetrical armor there unless you can't afford or find the other side.

 

[Peasant135]

I think that the advances and retreats that the characters do in combat mode could use a little bit of smoothing out. Even when tapping WASD, the characters cross their feet with a passing step, even if slightly. This makes them wobble a bit and look unstable because, they actually are in that moment; as their feet cross, there's less space between the feet meaning a less stable stance. The human body physics in this game are pretty good.

I think that the WASD taps should be "Fencing steps", meaning to go forward, front foot steps forward then back foot catches up; vice versa for a backwards step. This keeps the feet roughly equidistant during travel, so stability isn't affected as much. A WASD hold would be a passing-step lunge good for striking when just out of the enemy's range.

This is why I have set Dash option to Sprint(LShift) because its very difficult for me to tap the key just right to make only a small step and not to dash. Being able to choose when to dash and not to dash is very important option in Exanima.

I know that a lot of people, including the developers, enjoy the camera as it is and insist that it promotes a greater amount of precision than having it glued to your character's back. I'm unfortunately a creature of habit, and still think that being able to click my middle mouse button on an enemy to lock the camera on them ala Dark Souls I would be much happier than having to constantly readjust the camera because I can't deal with my character being in wierd spots on the screen.

You'll get used to it after first week. I did, and now I move the camera only if something is blocking the view.

 

[Augur]

Oh -- I just remembered something I would like to see. I knew I forgot something. Updated top post.

 

[Syllabear3]

Thats what i tried to say all along. Blows/slashes feel weak and slow sometimes, but they are doing their job.

They have changed the speed not so long ago, but it seems that they reversed it back. Probably people couldnt take it...

I am not going to respond to all but, i dont think i can use a two handed sword with fencing movements. I wouldnt try it anyways.

 

[Pc Genie]

Some thoughts, as usual:

- I love the idea of taking stances and positions that tell a player what is currently, as you say, 'coiled' to happen ready before it springs forth. If some spare buttons were allocated to changing stance such as to Iron Door, Boar's Tooth or Window, it would show the cuts and thrusts expected to happen from there and allow genuinely faster combat for the same reaction time.

- It's not just thrusts that are slow, the entire combat is a bit ponderous, perhaps to make it more accessible to new players or perhaps adversely affected players (such as with disabilities)? The whole 'skipping across' issue is likely a side effect of deflection and depending on the context of the thrust performed and the armour worn, could be quite legitimate.

- Tactical Hugs like you mentioned are a hilarious but silly little feature, I personally wouldn't like to see just kicks as they're an overused staple of swordfighting games. Perhaps combinations of kicks, shoves or proper grappling would work better. I understand that throwing everyone to the ground as per Fiore's Abrazare might be exploitable, but perhaps throwing people about rather than throwing them down might be more tactical.

- Shields and weapons could both do with more give, depending on the weapon impact that happens. This should be easier to implement as you merely dial in the movement amount from impacts and tune it to the most realistic looking setting.

- WHAT? You study Fiore Dei Liberi's treatises and you prefer shuffle footwork to passing footwork? Blasphemy! On a serious note, I think that perhaps the issue may be that the forward movement are always in TWO steps rather than one each, rather than passing forward and simply swapping which foot is forward. If left side and right side stances were implemented, it would be a path to fix this movement issue too.

- I think that coin cost is liked to individual item quality as needed and points are specifically for item types allowed and their limits, so they are fine as they are. A mail hauberk should cost X points, whether you got some shoddy rusty net of iron or finely made king's maille.

- I certainly agree that having a spectator view instead of a standard fully suitable third person camera angle is utterly horrid. If the camera moving with a person makes them sick like they claim, I ask how the fuck do they manage to play most third person games then?

- Asymmetrical armour? Perhaps, but they should be specific items for shield users or bloody cheapskates and much rarer, otherwise we'll all run around looking like Mirmillos and Retiarii!