Arena: Tiers and Points

[Peasant135]

First things first: while I'm not new to Exanima story mode(finished the game over 10 times) I'm still making my way in the arena mode towards Master rank, so if I'm talking bullshit, please be gentle.

My feelings about the way equipment balancing is handled: while the points system is excellent the tier system for weapons and armor feels stiff and artificial. Why cant I take my Two-handed sword into an Aspirant Duel? Is there anything fundamentally different in it from other weapons of that tier? The way I see it, there is nothing inherently wrong with having just a global max-points system in place for matches (togething with full re-balacing of point-costs ofc.). Sure, then you can wield a Halberd in a Novice match but you wont have any armor to speak of.
This would give players more freedom in their gear combinations, ergo, more replayablility.
My reason for staring this thread is to explore how the Exanima community feels about this matter and perhaps hear out the devs reasoning behind current system.
Edit: Added Poll to the thread.

 

[Roryn]

I quite like this idea, at least partially. I'd like to be able to make the trade of less armour for stronger weapons, but at the same time the enemies within the tiers all look appropriately equipped. It might look weird if we had a heavily armoured person fighting with a cleaver or something, and a similar thing for lightly armoured people fighting with heavy and elaborate-looking weapons.

 

[Peasant135]

I quite like this idea, at least partially. I'd like to be able to make the trade of less armour for stronger weapons, but at the same time the enemies within the tiers all look appropriately equipped. It might look weird if we had a heavily armoured person fighting with a cleaver or something, and a similar thing for lightly armoured people fighting with heavy and elaborate-looking weapons.

I see the problem here and I think I have the solution. Perhaps it is not a good idea to remove the tier system altogether, but instead of fixed tier for each piece of equipment they should have a band of tiers where they can be used. Like, a metal bar cannot be brought to an Expert level match, but you still can use an Expert level weapon at Novice rank if you are willing to sacrifice half of your armor to get it. This way we would eliminate the problems of "plate-with-the-cleaver" and "rags-with-the-halberd" types.

 

[Roryn]

I see the problem here and I think I have the solution. Perhaps it is not a good idea to remove the tier system altogether, but instead of fixed tier for each piece of equipment they should have a band of tiers where they can be used. Like, a metal bar cannot be brought to an Expert level match, but you still can use an Expert level weapon at Novice rank if you are willing to sacrifice half of your armor to get it. This way we would eliminate the problems of "plate-with-the-cleaver" and "rags-with-the-halberd" types.

Mm yeah, this seems to minimise that risk. I think prefer it this way, then. That being said, it's obviously not a huge deal but still would be a pleasantly mild change.

 

[Orlacktherof]

How are we going to account for the use of a quarterstaff at all ranks then?

 

[Peasant135]

How are we going to account for the use of a quarterstaff at all ranks then?

? I dont understand your question ? Maybe you should read carefully my previous message.

...Perhaps it is not a good idea to remove the tier system altogether, but instead of fixed tier for each piece of equipment they should have a band of tiers where they can be used. Like, a metal bar cannot be brought to an Expert level match, but you still can use an Expert level weapon at Novice rank...

 

[Orlacktherof]

? I dont understand your question ? Maybe you should read carefully my previous message.

A Quarterstaff is a no-tier item

"Like, a metal bar cannot be brought to an Expert level match, but you still can use an Expert level weapon at Novice rank..."

That would make it unusable.

 

[Peasant135]

A Quarterstaff is a no-tier item
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That would make it unusable.

Technically its an inept level item. Its just implied without making it explicit.
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Yeah, well,think about how many Adept matches and up did you win using a metal bar? Tip: it doesnt matter anyway, because 99% of players would be using a better weapon by then.

 

[Orlacktherof]

Technically its an inept level item. Its just implied without making it explicit.
--------------------------------------------
Yeah, well,think about how many Adept matches and up did you win using a metal bar? Tip: it doesnt matter anyway, because 99% of players would be using a better weapon by then.

I only ever use the quarterstaff...

 

[Roryn]

I only ever use the quarterstaff...

Iron-shod or regular?

 

[Orlacktherof]

Iron-shod or regular?

Iron-shod once I can, and then I only do master duels after that.

 

[Roryn]

Iron-shod once I can, and then I only do master duels after that.

A man after my own heart!

 

[Jennre_Bard]

I don't mind the weapon points. To me it simulates the Arena, where gladiators were tossed weapons and told to use them, or were given a choice of weapons and armor as they progressed through the ranks.

One thing that bothers me is the Tier and Rank columns. If I am fighting at Expert, I should be able to use my Expert gear, but often enough, I see Adept in the Rank Columns next to Expert. I don't really understand why.

The Rank column is unnecessary. Each tier should allow to use the gear up to and equal to that tier

 

[NachoDawg]

I don't mind the weapon points. To me it simulates the Arena, where gladiators were tossed weapons and told to use them, or were given a choice of weapons and armor as they progressed through the ranks.

One thing that bothers me is the Tier and Rank columns. If I am fighting at Expert, I should be able to use my Expert gear, but often enough, I see Adept in the Rank Columns next to Expert. I don't really understand why.

The Rank column is unnecessary. Each tier should allow to use the gear up to and equal to that tier

Rank is decided by amount of skill.

Tier decides what rank-level gear comes from.

If you see a "Rank: Master, Tier: Inept", you will fight someone with a Master-degree worth of skills, and you both will fight with Inept gear.

 

[Jennre_Bard]

Ohhhhhhhh. I see now

 

[ChildrenofMana]

I kind of like the current system, you unlock gear as you tier up.
I totally understand the feeling of using your favourite weapon in all matches.

Regarding the topic, I guess it should be easier to create most weapons for all tiers. Like a wooden 2 handed sword for inept, or a "half finished 2-handed sword" for an aspirant or a with their proper points inline with their corresponding Tiers.

 

[crashingtingler]

Im always a fan of diversity. having more options for yourself and npcs alike would be great. more interesting combinations sounds good to me.

 

[Peasant135]

I have found something new to add to this thread: take a look at this 14th century drawing of common solders slaughtering rebeled reasants.

Now tell me: what "rank" do you think they would be in the game? ...
If try to find in the picture the items we currently have in the game we can see that most of them are wearing: a gambeson, a chain coif, an open plate(scale?) helmet, plate gauntlets, cloth throusers, a buckler and a sword.
As we can see it was never a question of whether you were allowed to wear certian pieces of armor/weapons but only whether you could afford them.
Now I know that the world of SG is not a direct replica of any historical setting, much less exactly the 14th century France yet, hopefully, it has something in common with it. Namely the common sense of wearing the best armor you can get your hands on, starting with most important pieces.


P.S. And for dessert: