Item Durability and Repair

[Komuflage]

Perhaps items of a certain quality cannot be damaged?

Would this be items of the "ancient quality", and what would be the reason/lore of them not being damageable?

Finding items in a worn / broken state that can be restored

This actually seem like a fun idea. Finding an broken sword in some dungeon, I would guess that most people would just toss it away as junk. But some people might find out that it's really a high quality weapon, if you just restore it.

Various types of leather or cloth armour can't be effectively repaired

Wouldn't you just be able to either: budget repair it - just put a cloth/leather patch over it?
Or a full repair, in which you replace the entire broken section of the cloth/leather armour.

 

[Zervostyrd]

I particularly like the idea that you might for example find an old weapon that has deteriorated and you can restore it to its former glory, or that you can improve an item through some of the same mechanics. You could at that point work under the assumption that items just don't deteriorate noticeably or suddenly break during the time that you use them. Blunted edges, snapped/missing bow strings, rotten/broken shafts and grips all potentially work.

I really like this one too, Personally I haven't been interested at all in a usual run of the mill repair mechanic. From experiencing Oblivion, where I as a outstanding hoarder that absolutley must use all of the items I have hoarded, I ended up with broken/worn gear when I put the stuff in my stash, as a result of being out of those annoying repair hammers. (although this solved itself later when one became "master" in the "armourer" skill) I never really saw the point.

Anyway to a more relevant point. I'd love if there was different methods to "repair" these broken items you'll end up finding (hopefully rather frequent), For example, Say I've come across a worn plate armour, a bit dented and misses a shoulder plate.
Instead of going to the local blacksmith and ask him to make a (expensive) recast of the existing shoulder, I could just ask him to sort out the dents and attach another (cheap) "spare" shoulder guard which might not be as good, nor look as good. But it would serve the purpose, while saving you a few gold coins (assuiming that is the currency floating around).

There's probably endless variations of examples to draw from. This of course assumes that BM this idea is somewhat compatable to their modular equipment system though.

Anyway a humble thought...

 

[fluffydino2000]

I'm glad to hear that some of these ideas have been of use to you guys.

I think the wooden shafts example of an item damage issue could just be ignore. I guess it really depends on how often a wooden shaft would break. Though, with the force of some of the creatures in this game, it could be quite often.

Although, if few advanced weapons had wooden shafts (assuming better ones would be made of meta, not sure if this is the case though?) then it could be actually interesting if they broke. Coming up against an opponent with enough force to break a shaft with a weapon of that level would mean one of two things: either your stupid, in which case the weapon should be broken as a punishment; or your skilful in which case the potential for your weapon to break adds to the challenge. This does all hinge on whether or not better weapons have metal shafts. If they don't ignore this paragraph.

Light armours are the real problem here. Unless if the the repairs mentioned by @Komuflage and @Zervostyrd are viable we are indeed back to square one.

For cloths, I don't see much of an issue. It's loose enough that it won't tear that often and easy enough to repair by sewing it together again. Leather would be similar. Hardened leather, on the other hand, would have to operate similarly to plate, I guess. By having to find a professional to repair any tears or scratches.

This seems viable to me in terms of gameplay, but whether or not you think it's realistic enough is up to you. I honestly don't know much about medieval weapons and armours so it could be wildly inaccurate for all I know.

I think shields would benefit most from dynamic deformation so it's a shame that it won't be included. The idea being that they'd start to become misshapen and start to transmit force to the character (naturally through physics). This would mean that they would just become less and less effective, without ever breaking.

That's all my ideas for tonight. I might post-again tomorrow with some more ideas. I'll try and think specifically about shields though as I imagine you'd want shield deterioration regardless of other repair mechanics for balance reasons?

 

[the0thMonkey]

I just wanted to throw in a thought here:

I like the idea of weapons and equipment having some permanency to them. In Minecraft, did you ever bond with your iron pickaxes? No, neither did I. They lasted for a very short time and they had no personality to them. To continue with this example, consider that diamond pickaxe you invested so many levels in to enchant with Unbreaking III and Fortune IV. This one was memorable. It was your trusty pickaxe, which you'd whip out for any important bits of mining.

To go with a more SG example, consider your second sword. You spent days collecting all the necessary materials and coin to make it. You're not just going to throw it away, you are going to cherish it, maybe even name it.

Although somewhat rambley, my point is this: From a purely gameplay point of view, weapons and equipment should have some permanency. In many cases, I don't think it's so unrealistic it becomes immersion breaking, so overall it's worth it imo.

 

[martino]

I can't think of much fiction I've become immersed in (whether books, games, films) because of things like characters releaving themselves. Yeah, people eat and defecate, with some frequency, but the fact in itself is not very interesting. Characters may be eating as part of setting a scene but something else is going on, not the eating itself. I fail to see how constant repetition of these tasks could effectively contribute to any kind of story or role. What we have taken into serious consideration is food affecting your physique, that's kind of interesting. Eating because you have to seems pointless and tedious unless it drives content or presents a significant and relevant challenge. These seem like difficult things to pull off without significantly changing the scope and direction of the game. Procuring your next meal is not what we have in mind as the difficult challenge your character must overcome.

I agree most mundane tasks are not interesting and should take no more than a mouse click to complete. However things get interesting when you can not. Without rest, food, fluids what is usually considered an easy mark all of sudden become a threat to evaluate. As the durability on your favoured weapon runs low all of a sudden you begin to consider whether it is prudent to switch to your secondary weapon or even to take one from your fallen enemies.

Games like Angband, when after your have fallen down a trapdoor, your out of food and almost out of light. Do you risk eating the corpse of the beast you have just killed, possibly poisoning yourself or worse. Do you make an offering of the corpse on the alter and pray for favor. Now those games are pretty ruthless, however the satisfaction you get for dodging the bullet is very real (and adds to the hurt when you get yourself killed by testing wands you found 50f below the surface by summoning a dragon which promptly eats you)

The thing that annoyed me with (most of) Skyrim was that it felt like a safe haven was always just around the corner. Running the risk of been caught in the wilderness or worse underground without sufficient supplies or function equipment should be something that I would like to players take into account before the send there character or to do something risky.
Sometime we will be frustrated that we have to return to town because we forgot to repair our gear or restock our supplies. But we will also experience those epic (unquested) stories where our character over 4 days and high though his way out of a ghouls lair with an ogres thigh bone for a weapon and having nothing to eat but bats and the algae hanging from the walls.

 

[martino]

I just wanted to throw in a thought here:

I like the idea of weapons and equipment having some permanency to them. In Minecraft, did you ever bond with your iron pickaxes? No, neither did I. They lasted for a very short time and they had no personality to them. To continue with this example, consider that diamond pickaxe you invested so many levels in to enchant with Unbreaking III and Fortune IV. This one was memorable. It was your trusty pickaxe, which you'd whip out for any important bits of mining.

To go with a more SG example, consider your second sword. You spent days collecting all the necessary materials and coin to make it. You're not just going to throw it away, you are going to cherish it, maybe even name it.

Although somewhat rambley, my point is this: From a purely gameplay point of view, weapons and equipment should have some permanency. In many cases, I don't think it's so unrealistic it becomes immersion breaking, so overall it's worth it imo.

(In Minecraft) Last night I got bunted into some lave at the end of and ore gathering expiditation, I was so over joyed when I say that my enchanted pickaxe had survived. I lost over 90% of the resources I had gathered but I didn't care my pick axe had survived.

I Disagree with you that weapons and equipment should have permanence. Longevity yes. I want to have to make a decision whether it is worth using my swords of sliceness on mercenary work or should I save it for the final battle.

 

[the0thMonkey]

I Disagree with you that weapons and equipment should have permanence. Longevity yes. I want to have to make a decision whether it is worth using my swords of sliceness on mercenary work or should I save it for the final battle.

Just to clarify, by "some permanency" I think I meant the same thing as you did by "longevity". Not that equipment would be unbreakable, but it shouldn't be disposable either. I think we're on the same page

 

[fluffydino2000]

An idea I just had to make certain repairs not require a smith. What if you could do the equivalent of hammering with very low level force thaumaturgy. Or high level. The balance is up to you guys. But, this could allow for things like shields to deteriorate much more rapidly, so much so that it could happen in one long fight, meaning you have to be careful using them. The fact that you could repair it anywhere means that it wouldn't get too annoying having to run to a blacksmith after every fight, whilst also making shields slightly less powerful.

 

[martino]

If you can repair anywhere you want or conjure food /water on demand it defeat the purpose of the mechanics.

It also means as you level up the game becomes easier, less risky.

 

[Parco]

An idea I just had to make certain repairs not require a smith. What if you could do the equivalent of hammering with very low level force thaumaturgy. Or high level. The balance is up to you guys. But, this could allow for things like shields to deteriorate much more rapidly, so much so that it could happen in one long fight, meaning you have to be careful using them. The fact that you could repair it anywhere means that it wouldn't get too annoying having to run to a blacksmith after every fight, whilst also making shields slightly less powerful.

wouldnt faster deteriorate force people to lvl up thaumaturgy even when its not that play style they want to go for, wouldnt it make it harder in a unfair way for those who want to avoid using supernatural powers? i like the idea of using thaumaturgy to repair stuff, and the higher level you have in that skill the better repairs you can do i think, but i dont think it should deteriorate quicker because of it, unless youre fighting an ogre or using a wooden shield ofc

 

[fluffydino2000]

Well, I don't think improving your thaumaturgy would actually affect this power because you are essentially making a temporary repair hammer. Because it's a low level power, you could do it from the start of the game, and never have to specialise in thaumaturgy.

The mechanic would be there to try and make shields have a meaningful deterioration, so that in one fight it could be made much less effective (never broken). This would make the use of shields more challenging and interesting whilst also removing the issue of having to run to a blacksmith.

It definitely has it's issues, but I was merely trying to think of ways to make shields deteriorate meaningfully.

 

[Green]

One big problem I have with repair systems is that they work too well. This breaks the fourth wall instantly for me, since I can see that my weapon's "HP" is at 40/100 or 40%. My sword isn't a living entity, so I feel like it shouldn't have HP. I don't care about the numbers, I wanna see that the rickety iron broadsword I bought on the cheap is being chipped and broken faster than what I'm used to. I wanna see that my plate helm has a big old dent on the right side from an errant greathammer. If that would be too difficult to implement, then I'd have BM do what Bethesda did, and just 86 the idea. I don't need weapon repairing to immerse me in the game, but if it's there it does need to be done right, for me. If I'm gonna think that my armor might fail me in a fight, I want to be thinking that because of something that is represented in game and not by simply reading it and being told that it might "break". Speaking of which, broken leather could still be used to make things, so I feel like good, solid repairing mechanics would be better suited in games that also feature good, solid crafting. Otherwise, it feels too forced and too 'tacked on' to be of any gameplay value whatsoever. It would all be negatory detraction and would have zero positive impact on the gameplay. I would only ever equalize the "negative-ness", not bring it past that.

CubeWorld (a completely unrelated game) has a cool feature where you can collect pieces of ores to place on your weapon, and it is cube/voxel based so it shapes the weapon into some potentially cool designs. That would be a game where weapon deterioration would make sense, causing you to outright lose pieces and voxels of your hand made sword. In SG, on the other hand, I feel time could be better spent making a great narrative, and having amazing character interaction. Not to mention the combat! Repairing your weapons and armor, as immersive-sounding as it may be, does just the opposite, reminding me that I'm the player, I need to do what is best for my stats, and worry about a nagging system that isn't needed.

Maintenance could be cool, but again, I just can't appreciate it in context to how I think SG is going to be. To me, its quality over quantity any day. I'd rather have a more robust dialogue mechanic than an added maintenance mechanic. I can accept that using a whetstone might make my weapon a bit sharper, and thus a bit more damaging, but again, I dunno how I feel about it in context to SG.

I didn't see much posted on upgrading when I skimmed Madoc's posts, but just to put in my two cents:
I feel that upgrading would be cool and all, but again better suited to a game with an already solid focus on crafting, and smithing, and weapon repairing. It fits into games like Skyrim, because of the systems already in place, but I don't feel like it fits well enough into SG to be properly implemented. Again, I'm more of a "if you're gonna do, do it right" kinda guy, at least when it comes to games.

Sorry for rambling, and sorry if my points have already been said, I'm a bit late to the party. This is all in my opinion, and I haven't read enough of this thread to be taking others' points in mind

 

[fluffydino2000]

I have been thinking about the deterioration of shields a lot now and have come to realize that they probably only deteriorate in a few ways: piercing, warping and denting. From what I can tell, piercing would allow attacks through a shield, which without actual simulation would be really difficult to feature. Warping and denting would affect how the shield distributes force. With that in mind, could you, instead of changing the shape of the shield (as it's too difficult), change the material of the shield.

Let me explain. When I say material, I don't literally mean material, but more the physical properties of the shield. If you could change properties such as hardness in a localized fashion, it could add some meaningful deterioration without ever making the player need to repair the shield. I don't know what properties exist in the game for forces to be calculated properly, but this could be the best way of doing it. I'm imagining that the shield would slowly become weaker and more prone to damage in areas and would start to transmit more force through certain parts. This almost has the effect of deforming the model, but without the added difficulty of deforming the model. This could work for armours as well. Maybe even weapons, if you could simulate localized bluntness without changing the model of the weapon.

 

[Fawz]

Thanks for taking the time to actively participate in the conversation Madoc. Steering people in the right direction can be tricky, but we might stumble on some good game design ideas or just keep people busy with some food for though

 

[Fresh]

Repairing items in games are mostly a boring addition in my opinion. But I guess it would be interesting and realistic if weapons of bad quality broke during fighting, like swords of bad quality shatter against a good quality blade. But having to constantly think of the condition of the weapons and armor is not a feature I would like.