Locked door in map room(spoilers possibly)

[zhuliks]

Horrible level design?

I never said they DID a horrible design. All I meant was if they dont give us tips on items we will have to rely on good level design and just made an example what would be horrible design with this system.

Its nice to have roleplaying to things, it also works for level design if there is a note or a hint, say body lying under the table with its arm stretched forward, suggesting there might be a key under a table or something else.

In my example I called it horrible because there are no ways for you to notice a key in my example, you remove all the boxes and under them there is nothing like in many other piles because without proper zoom in you cant see it between other dark grey pixels and cursor doesnt show it either as it doesnt react on interactive items. So you just move past it. And then spend another 12 hours going through every tile of the level because the door at the end of the level were closed and you explored everything.

Please note I'm not blaming developers for doing anything horrible so far, just stating its possible to make experience for players irritating and infuriating with such system. Its like with riddles, if a riddle is hard its interesting, but for it to be good the answer must be proper, the kind you know IS the answer because it makes sense. If its ridiculous then the only purpose of such riddle is to mess with people trying to guess and have fun from their suffering attempts to guess the unguessable. When you get the answer you couldn't for so long on a good riddle you feel like a fool for not getting it, when you are told the answer on a bad riddle you feel like a fool for even trying.

I'm all for no obvious autosearch mechanisms, but the example I made is just horrible. Haven t seen horrible designs so far in Exanima though, if not counting that table that might hurl the key into a dark corner that would make it merge with the ground like some kind of predator.

While we are at it, higher zoom would certainly help noticing such small few pixel big items on the floor and in piles of debris.

 

[Orlacktherof]

We have gotten spoiled playing all these games that hold our hand and walk us through every step. Giving us not-so-subtle pointers on where to look for things.

How about subtle clues then? Leave a note somewhere about some official or something that works in an area where there is a locked door. It doesn't say look for this guy exactly, most zombies kinda have the same uniform type, and even then, it doesn't mean he will be carrying it, but perhaps it's somewhere nearby?

 

[Murf]

It's supposed to be tough and infuriating. It's not supposed to be easy.

A good riddle is in a game is in no way comparable to having the game show or hi-lite where you should be looking. There are hints, the door is locked, that means there is a key somewhere, you went into a fight and fought and blustered around bouncing into things and knocking stuff over? tough luck. be more careful next time.

I never said they DID a horrible design. All I meant was if they don't give us tips on items we will have to rely on good level design and just made an example what would be horrible design with this system.

Then you seemed to miss my point saying it already is a good level design. It is an accurate and believable design. Who are we to say we even get to go through every locked door, maybe the guy took off and took the key with him.

In my example I called it horrible because there are no ways for you to notice a key in my example, you remove all the boxes and under them there is nothing like in many other piles because without proper zoom in you cant see it between other dark grey pixels and cursor doesnt show it either as it doesnt react on interactive items. So you just move past it. And then spend another 12 hours going through every tile of the level because the door at the end of the level were closed and you explored everything.

Her is another example of us being spoiled by games in the past 15 years.
The incredible gfx detail isn't enough to see a key because it is dark and the floor is dark?
That is what a torch is for. All items show up just fine if you shine some light on where you are looking.

if not counting that table that might hurl the key into a dark corner that would make it merge with the ground like some kind of predator.

My previous statement stands.
"Personally I am glad there is finally a game that holds me responsible for my actions."



As for the deeper zoom..that has been requested many times, by myself as well, and Madoc never commented on it. That leads me to believe that the zoom is going to stay where it is. During the streams while Madoc is testing things, we see him zoom way in, so it is possible, the fact that it has not been implemented says all there is to say I think. But who knows, maybe he will change the zoom level later on, but I would not count on it.

I am not mad or trying to belittle, (apologies if it comes across that way) it is really hard to throw off deeply ingrained expectations. Took me a while to do it. But I am glad I did. The reason I know it is these deeply ingrained expectations that have us questioning certain things that the Devs do, is by watching how my friends that have never played this type of game, react. I don't hear any of the 'they should do this or this or this. Even the camera movement in relation to the player that is the hotbed of debate and is the cause of many of us 'relearning' what we think we know about movement within a game, they are perfectly ok with, no qualms at all, because they do not have any preconceived notions of what a game should do or be.

 

[Murf]

How about subtle clues then? Leave a note somewhere about some official or something that works in an area where there is a locked door. It doesn't say look for this guy exactly, most zombies kinda have the same uniform type, and even then, it doesn't mean he will be carrying it, but perhaps it's somewhere nearby?

I dunno, I am ok with the current method, hell there is one locked door, and they key is on the entire other side of the map. Talk about frustrating! That also means more gameplay(time). I like that the devs leave a lot of it up to us to figure out. Hell, wait til this next update, puzzles., you think it will be an easy 'oh pull this, voila! I solved it!'. Hell no, we are gonna die over and over trying to figure it out. That is awesome and long overdue IMO.

Oh and don't forget, a lot of thing we do now, in combat, are 'turned on full' when the skill system gets implemented, they are going to get turned off and we are going to have to earn and allocate what we want. Going to be like our first time playing all over again. Every move and counter move we have perfected. Gone. Gotta earn it. We've had it easy up to this point. I am looking forward to Bare Mettle taking the gloves off and letting us have it.

 

[Orlacktherof]

I suppose that would be nice.

 

[zhuliks]

*Sigh* I suppose its pointless to argue abou unfinished product. They did everything good so far.

 

[Guy]

Think of items like this.

I personally am a bit paranoid. If you broke into my home/property/farm/etc (or explore it after
i am dead and gone) you would be able to find a bit of goodies easily, the stuff I have out for everyday access. You would have to look a bit to find a couple more more valuable/useful items. But some things are very very well hidden, beyond the scope of even most professional or painstaking of searches, and would require heavy equipment and the like to find, yet can be accessed easily if you know where the "switch" is.

Now, you are in my house after "the end", I am dead and my pockets have just the front door keys, truck keys and shop keys on it. The rest has to be found by you. And I haven't even set any traps, instead relying on passive protection only. I assure you that the best stuff, spares, and really anything that isn't used most everyday or isn't a distraction to make you think you found the "good stuff" from an average home is well hidden and secured.

And does not glow, blink or otherwise draw attention to itself.

So why should it work that way in a game?

 

[JamesKel]

I don't understand about this. I'm new here.

 

[Zoltan]

Hi guys,

For me there is a point about giving slight hint on progression blocking objects in this game, nobody (I suppose) want to be stuck forever searching something that fell out of sight.

Keep in mind when you relate to the real life that our eyes are a lot closer to things than in game, imagine that your house key would be a few millimeter length.

 

[Don Kanaille]

But there is only a single progression blocking object, and that is much earlier and hard to miss. All the other keys just lock away optional content, and if you miss these by bad luck or lack of attention, then that´s just how the game is. You know, consequences, and all that.
This is especially important when we look at Sui Generis if you cannot unlock a door because the key was lost, than that is just how the world is: either find a way around that fact or give up. There won´t be safety nets or a guiding presence of the devs, just some parameters to which the world unfolds dynamically. I know this argument doesn´t hold up as well in the more linear Exanima, but given that it´s supposed to be a testing ground for the main game and doesn´t have any actual roadblock so far, I think it´s fair the way it is.

 

[Anthony Obilor]

There is only one key that hinders progress and that is very visible on a table with lore there as well. The key that fell under a table can be easily found if you pay attention to the room, of course bad camera angle could make the table block your view, but even in real life a table can block your view of something under depending on where you are standing. Rotating the camera to check the scene is the same as looking under the table.

Now one thing you should take note of is all keys are either very visible/accessible or put in a natural way and not hidden. There are no keys under a pile of boxes or degree,. This shows good design, the key beside not really under the table, you are attracted to it by the scene, scrolls hint at things that direct you to the keys or to Rooms. I doubt the dev would ever force the players to painstakingly search every crevice. Usually when iIenter a room I use logic to understand what the room was for and what could possibly be hidden there. I don't enter a toilet and search for keys, or a washroom.there are kitchens, bedrooms, dinning rooms, armory, storage, offices, etc. You can use real life logic to find and figure things out.

 

[Orlacktherof]

How is this thread still going long after it's conclusion?

 

[Anthony Obilor]

boredom from the wait

 

[Greenbrog]

True Story, probably the same reason the steam forums have gotten so rabid too.

 

[turtleman155]

I was so hoping for it to come out today it's now the last day of my holidays.

 

[Zoltan]

How is this thread still going long after it's conclusion?

I can't help I must say it...I hate your signature

 

[Orlacktherof]

I can't help I must say it...I hate your signature

Look at it. It is glorious. You don't even have a one.

 

[NachoDawg]

Look at it. It is glorious. You don't even have a one.

Dislike! Disliiiike!