Nudity

[Komuflage]

so well, what's your intent in wanting nudity in the game anyway? What do you intend to do nude? Probably nothing worth encouraging.

But how I'm I supposed to role-play that I'm Arnold the terminator, send back to the past to save Connots great great great great ... great grandfather if I can't be nude?!


Jokes aside, this thread is just going around in circles. The public video already proved that there is at least partial nudity, can't we just leave it at that

 

[mcmanusaur]

Also, Oona please give me another example of something that has no practical application yet should be included in a game. It seems to me that people want nudity to be an exception in this regard.

 

[the0thMonkey]

Well, as long as your acknowledging that the only practical reason to include nudity is immature shenanigans that may or may not fall under the pretense of "roleplaying", that's your prerogative. I was simply addressing the claim that "it's intent that makes nudity immature"; if there's no conceivable intent in using it that doesn't make it immature (offer one if you disagree) then I think it's safe to say that intent isn't the operative variable.

Immature shenanigans are one thing, but including a feature simply because it would be unrealistic to not include is totally different. I imagine that many in-depth roleplayers (Zemalf from YouTube comes to mind) would use nudity not as an activity or focus in itself, but merely something that adds realism. For instance, any eye candy or prop that is just there for the sake of something to look at or to add atmosphere does not have a practical purpose, but that does not mean it shouldn't be included.

 

[mcmanusaur]

Immature shenanigans are one thing, but including a feature simply because it would be unrealistic to not include is totally different. I imagine that many in-depth roleplayers (Zemalf from YouTube comes to mind) would use nudity not as an activity or focus in itself, but merely something that adds realism. For instance, any eye candy or prop that is just there for the sake of something to look at or to add atmosphere does not have a practical purpose, but that does not mean it shouldn't be included.

Whether nudity would contribute to the overall atmosphere or realism is a decision that only the developer is able to make, and I would respect Bare Mettle's decision either way. For me, it's meaningless for someone else to use that as an a priori justification for the inclusion of nudity, however.

 

[Cooper Holt]

I think they should keep it out of public videos, but leave it in development videos, the forums, and the game. I wish there was something else I could add, but everyone's already said them better than I possibly can. Especially Elric.

 

[Tony]

A great example of why nudity should be in the game is because it is awkward seeing your character have permanently attached clothing. You can take everything that a player has equipped so why not include the clothes they are wearing? Especially if disguises are to play a significant role in Sui Generis.

Bare Mettle has stated that they want the world to be immersive and for things to behave appropriately in order to not distract you from the game. An example of this is the running animation shown in the previous videos. People make a big deal out of it because it doesn't look right and it breaks immersion seeing something that isn't behaving appropriately.

 

[Fresh]

why the heck not?

I'm sorry, but I guess I just can't find a place for a pixeled penis in the game. In all seriousness. I understand that my views on this topic might be old fashioned, but I liked it the way that Bethesda did it for Skyrim - you don't go all nude but still get the reactions from NPC's in your undergarments. I just think a full nudity aspect of the game would be ridiculous - although I understand people find it more realistic. I mean would those..ahem..parts have physics too? I'm not trying to be rude or anything, this is just my thoughts on the topic. We all get the impression that it is atleast partial nudity in the game after watching the newest video, and that's fine by me - but to go full nudity..Just don't feel right to me. I guess if it's about the realism of it all, there should be children in the game too.

 

[Rob]

Personally, I'm pro-nudity for the sake of immersion.

Forget about stripping down the character in the inventory for a second, and have a look at 11:13 where she's stolen all of the guard's clothes. Fantastic! Without meaning to sound a bit weird... it looks great to see the naked guard sprawled on the floor, looking properly beat and vulnerable. Him being naked does add to that immersion.

I can imagine that nudity could be built into the game in a way that has practical application. For example, if you run down the street naked then I can imagine that people are going to respond to you very differently to if you are fully clothed! Furthermore, if you manage to somehow steal someone's clothes, then they won't be able to go about their routine patrol (for example) for fear of embarrassing themselves in public. Ok, so this sort of stuff may never make it into Sui Generis, but anyway there's a couple of examples of how it could be used in principle.

I think that the fact that BM are "allowing" nudity from the start is a good thing, as it means that they've got full control over it. For example, if they had forced undergarments then how long would it be until someone released a mod to remove them? Possibly ending up in some really stupid looking models, which is what happened in some Dragon Age Origins mods.

I understand that nudity may be a negative from a child-friendly point of view. Plus some people might not want certain members of their family coming into the room while they're playing a game that involves naked people. Ideally, Bare Mettle should make allowances for those people, where nudity breaks immersion not enhances it. Specifically, I think that there should be a child-friendly option in the game menu that forces undergarments. However, that option should be disabled by default.

 

[fluffydino2000]

This may sound immature, and it is, but has anyone considered that the mass of a penis in such a physics rich simulation. It could affect things like balance, and may be why some of the animations are a little off. Well that last part is a joke because it was a woman not a man. But my point still stands, it could actually slightly affect gameplay.

 

[Elric von Rabenfels]

Well, as long as you're acknowledging that the only practical reason to include nudity is immature shenanigans that may or may not fall under the pretense of "roleplaying", that's your prerogative. I was simply addressing the claim that "it's intent that makes nudity immature"; if there's no conceivable intent in using it that doesn't make it immature (offer one if you disagree) then I think it's safe to say that intent isn't the operative variable.

No, I won't acknowledge such a thing.
I can see many practical reasons to include nudity:

1. It's natural to be nude when you have no clothes on. Fact.
2. One would be able to examine wounds on your body, if there are any more permanent injuries on your character. Those wounds would be hidden from sight by your clothes. Maybe you'd even need to take, for example, your shirt off to apply salve or medicine to those wounds. Smearing them on clothers doesn't do much-
3. Earn an extra income as model for artists. Take off your clothes, let someone draw a beautiful painting, support art, get paid. Yay!
4. Using your very own "argument(s)" to bribe someone. "Will you let me past if I give you a peek?".
5. Swimming works much better when you don't wear panties that get soaked up by water (linen and wool do that alot) and become extremely heavy. The less clothing (and armour!), the better you can swim. Oh, and AFTER swimming is even worse, you'll most definitely catch a cold if you keep those wet pants on all night.
6. Back in the medieval periods, women wore only a dress as undergarment. No bra, no panties. Men wore pants, breeches to be exact. A bra, panties and corsage for woman have been excavated, but they are dated to the very late medieval period.
7. If you rob a person and take his clothes, why the heck would have any clothes left? What if YOU are robbed and left for dead by bandits? Believe they'd be so nice to leave you anything? I think not.
8. Immersion. What are those magic panties I can't take off? This is NOT the immersion a physics based world deserves.

Just because YOU don't see any practical reason to include nudity doesn't mean there isn't.
I'll go even further and claim if the only things a person can think about when they think nudity is immature shenanigans, that says alot about the person and their perception of nudity itself, and video games. If that offends you, I apologise in advance. My boldness is simply a fundamental part of my personality, and there is nothing I can do about it.

But I won't acknowledge the truth you have established only for yourself.

And I want to add that I'm in support of nudity for BOTH genders.
Treat them equally. Anything else would be silly.

 

[Komuflage]

Forget about stripping down the character in the inventory for a second, and have a look at 11:13 where she's stolen all of the guard's clothes. Fantastic! Without meaning to sound a bit weird... it looks great to see the naked guard sprawled on the floor, looking properly beat and vulnerable. Him being naked does add to that immersion.

This is per se not an issue for me, I don't really care that much, however, I actually think that the fact that he's naked takes away from the immersion, rather than adding to it.

If you steal the guards cloths to disguise yourself, then why would you steal his undergarment? Makes no sense imo

 

[Rob]

This is per se not an issue for me, I don't really care that much, however, I actually think that the fact that he's naked takes away from the immersion, rather than adding to it.

It's clear that the community is very split on this issue. I think that this idea could solve all of the problems, and keep everyone happy:

Ideally, Bare Mettle should make allowances for those people, where nudity breaks immersion not enhances it. Specifically, I think that there should be a child-friendly option in the game menu that forces undergarments. However, that option should be disabled by default.

 

[Elric von Rabenfels]

Ideally, Bare Mettle should make allowances for those people, where nudity breaks immersion not enhances it. Specifically, I think that there should be a child-friendly option in the game menu that forces undergarments. However, that option should be disabled by default.

That would be absolutely perfect.
Freedom of choice for everyone. Hooray!

 

[fluffydino2000]

Having undergarments as an actual item could help too. That way, if you want to take someone's underwear to make them look vulnerable you can. And, you'll never need to be naked, if you don't want to be.

 

[malfunction]

The problem you're all overlooking is that it's not worth bumping up to an R rating and being potentially banned in several countries because it's "immersion breaking" to not show vaginas.

Even just having the assets for nakedness in the game files can qualify it for an R rating in some areas.

 

[Fresh]

It's a interesting discussion, but I'm also pretty sure it's a pointless one - they must have decided what they are going for already. Looking forward to see what they came up with.

 

[Elric von Rabenfels]

The problem you're all overlooking is that it's not worth bumping up to an R rating and being potentially banned in several countries because it's "immersion breaking" to not show vaginas.

Even just having the assets for nakedness in the game files can qualify it for an R rating in some areas.

My personal opinion on this is "Fuck ratings".
if a game is bumped up to an adult rating for something like THAT, then there's something wrong with the way that country handles ratings, not the game.

As was mentioned, make it a CHOICE.
That way, everybody will be fine.

 

[Minq]

Your kidding, right? Being banned in some countries, or having a higher rating that prevents younger people from buying the game is something a start up developer should keep in mind.

Aside from that, the insider dev videos show that the models are not anatomically correct. They have titties, but no goods down below. So much for immersion.

Also, many many people, including myself, find complete nudity to be in bad taste. You might say "well, if you find nudity offensive, then your immature", which is not a good argument. Lets take the Witcher 2; They had nudity (though not full frontal nudity, I might add) which some praised as being mature. To me it felt like they crammed unnecessary scenes of nudity just to say "See, we're mature". Metro Last light had tits falling out of female character's blouses for no apparent reason other than to seem mature. These guys were trying too hard, in my opinion.

As to the list of reasons for being able to go nude, such as flashing guards as a bribe, or modeling for art. . . well most of that sounds out of place for a fantasy, combat heavy RPG. The one exception might be checking for wounds on your character and applying bandages, but that sounds like a boring mini game and completely unnecessary. Also, why would anyone loot underwear?

Making full nudity an option would not change the rating, and any proposed gameplay mechanics involving nudity would not work in the titty-free version, so that option doesn't really help.

Anyways, just my two cents. There may be a reason that the vast majority of other RPGs have undergarments for characters without clothing on. Keep that in mind.

 

[lvk]

I can see it now: wiithin an hour of release we'll see a gameplay video, five to eight "Let's Play Sui Generis! (blind) Episode 1" and about ten videos telling you how to turn on nudity set to the soundtrack of Linkin Park and the visuals of Unregistered Hypercam 2.

It's probably better to try asking someone of Bare Mettle directly what it's gonna look like, or just wait a while for the alpha and find out.

 

[Tony]

I don't think they've modeled genitalia (based upon previous screenshots) so you would only be exposed to one's backside and/or chest if they weren't wearing clothing. Even children have seen a naked Barbie doll I'm assuming? I don't see what the big deal is.