Thoughts and Ideas General

Espadon

Member
In battle, there is often a situation where, at close range, you hit the enemy not with a blade, but with a hilt. I think it would be nice to add damage for the hilt? Also, it seems a little strange to me that defeated opponents immediately release weapons from their hands. It looks as if they were instantly turned off. Perhaps it is worth making them keep it for some time? And yet ... A new (or not so new?) Balance system is good, but I think it can be done even better. I watched a fails compilation, and there, if people fell, they always tried to grab onto something, or put out their hands when they fell. I think this addition will make the fall more realistic.

Sorry for my poor English
 

Blaikai

Member
Hello!
First of all, sorry for my bad english)
Second.. this game is amazing. I have never seen so incredible physics and combat system. Skills and “leveling” are pretty cool and interesting too.
But I have question...
I think, that heavy armor is cool, but what if I want to use light armor? Will I have some benefits from using it? Because now, if we just imagine PVP, someone in heavy armor can just run up to me and easily knock me down, then kill me while I lay on the ground. Does it mean, that game is forcing us to use only heavy armor?
 

Jpbt

Member
Hello Exanima/Sui Generis community!
My first time leaving a message here after following this game for 5 years now and I feel so exited about it! :cool:
Anyway, I felt encouraged to do so after reading Blaikai's post which urged me the need to share my opinion. I'm obviously not the most experienced player but I really think that I can contribute with your doubt about armour use, having always in mind the physics rules of the game.
Firstly let me add, do not say it's bad or feel sorry for your English at all! It is very understandable and you made a good use of it going straight to the point in your post. Secondly I absolutely agreed with its awesomeness, because even tho I have stopped playing it several times, I always come back to it looking forward to see what new stuff have the game creators brought us with the updates without regretting it every single time. It might feel long the period of time between updates but I believe that, this is compensated due to the hard work of the developers.
Going to the point about the armours and assuming the game will keep a certain grade of logic(It's still a game tho), think more in depth about the advantages and also the disadvantages when wearing a heavy armour. A heavy armour brings high defensive against slash attacks, piercing attacks and as a last, blunt attacks. Basically a good protection against physical attacks. It sounds really superficial and obvious explained like this but have in mind that every type of weapon will have a certain grade of bluntness power applied when you swing it just because of the action itself based on the physics, and depending on what tool you've chosen to impart your ideals, it will greatly slash, pierce or crush. But imagine by an instance that you have a long sword which is in a very dull state(a sword lacking the sharpness to cut or slash), wielding a sword in such state would basically be the same as wielding a long iron bar, it would have simply a blunt damage impact on your enemies, a bit of piercing perhaps but it wouldn't slash, instead it would crush their bones just like a blunt/impact damage oriented weapon(Long Hammer).
I am going around the bush with this explanation so you can easily see also the disadvantages.
Wearing a heavy armour will definitely slow you down, it will make your movements more clumsy or at least more limited and surely slow in comparison with wearing a leather armour, and if you stumble and fall, you will take more time to get up because of all the weight, giving your opponent more time to try a finishing blow. I believe heavy armour protects very well against slashing weapons but not so well against blunt/impact weapons, reason why this last one is a very effective approach when facing opponents with shield, breaks faster the enemies posture or defensive pose.
The amazing thing about this game is that you have an incredible amount of gear possible combinations to balance and support your play style. We will definitely see with time(Have faith!) the benefits of wearing leather armour making viable sneaking behind opponents to make ambushes or going through the level without having to face a boss. Obviously when fighting and withstanding a hit wearing a leather armour, it can be more lethal, but you can always turn around and run for it to successfully escape. Fights might require more technique but surely just with seeing how the developers are paving the road for this game probably, all playing approaches in the game will have pros and cons and their rewards.

I hope it was somehow helpful of entertaining since this is majorly just my opinion based on what I've experienced playing.
Huge support for the devs and beyond. Always looking forward to see more of your work.
Thanks and keep it up amigos!
 

Blaikai

Member
I started to play a few days ago, so I don’t have a lot of experience and understanding of mechanics but..

Is it correct, that the power of hit depends in what time you move (after swing)?
Does the power depends of how you moving the mouse (for example, from right to left, with big amplitude)?
Maybe Im wrong, but for 1 hour I tried to do simple left and right attacks (with different mouse moves), and no matter how hard I tried, it seems like the hit from the left shoulder is a bit faster, than from the right.

Just my thoughts, but) Maybe it’s gonna be interesting to add some kind of tricky attacks? For example, a trick for dual weapon. A hero start to attack from right, but, without finishing the hit, suddenly spin in the opposite direction and attacking from left. Yes, it’s almost “remise”, but it’s different)
 

DEESSE

Member
Some ideas came to my mind after the ten first hours :

I Think I understand Bare Mettle phylosophy around won creation and unic world and game play. Quite naturally to be unic one has to act in divergent ways than those already existing. Yet... It almost seems impossible now to create strictly first time seen mechanics ever.
So I d very much would like to learn we well be able to heal a bit through eating. In a reallistic way that is :
We already need time to assimilate our earned experience (and 25% is even shared with all other created char's) so why not implement something similar with food and nutritients ? After all we ealistically need food and water to persist in our world. Not even magic prevent that.
I don't know how the crew would put it inside the game though I may although have some ideas :
10% of what we eat is transformed in regenerated health/blood (not limbs that would be too... usual right ?)
the rest goes to the latrine... and/or through skin with the drop of sweat.
That might come with digestive necessity of the body : and a bit of emcumbrance as well isn't it ?

Somethink similar to I'm full I walk in a goofy (more goffy way) I'm starving I could eat a giant goblin or three ?..

As physicall aspects already are integrated in the game would that be inconvenient to add this ?


Money... I understand dungeon crawling, but usually the first fuel of the journey is money. I saw dice, board games, in the first area but absolutely no coin... which made me think of something else (at least concerning Exanima) Is it worth to wear more than the usefull items ? Maybe a second set for a companion but then what ? No selling of the loot anywhere ?

On steam forum I read someone ask if we (buyers of Exanima) will have to put more money inside it at its release. that made me wonder :
a) to know if Exanima and Sui Generis where linked or independant games.
b) why would that be bad to pure in ten more pounds or dollars or whatever ?
It really looks that your deep into it since more than five years (I presume you didn't get your first ideas the day you asked for help as kickstarter). And even if I only know little about U.K. or Australian economy, dev' isn't cheap.

Which helps me come back to money, in game again. If we write our own very personal story, money might come handy, mechanically speaking, but how about manipulation ? Chars might be able to be lied to and lie to as well... So what about psychological mechanics as well ?

I had a little glimpse of this with the first NPC encounter who speak with us. And I realized that without this guy, I would have felt in a cartoonish beat 'em up with some toys to keep baby deesse quite for some more minutes ;-p
(I robbed the dice by the way !) But why would there be only usefull items ? Useless ones might well give more :
a) value compared to those who aren't.
b) more life and realism as per se human being is eager to waste vaste amounts of resource in vain and quickly forgotten pleasures.
c) insight of game "true" physics motor (Really wish we might be allowed to throw dice, knives, darts and daggers).


Yet, I reckon I only have played it ten hours max since yesterday and intend to give you more of my time before ahving a solid opinion of your baby.
I'm already impressed by your dedication and expect some surprise from you.



Deesse

Edit : Forgot to mention one suggestion, desire : Will we really be stuck to incharnate human beings or will we be allowed to give birth/life to monsters as well ? In which case :will they have their own cultural society as well ?
 

Midcal9

Member
I've got a question about a certain thought some of the devs decided to implement, why did you put a cap on the amount of skills one can learn? Or is it just a bug?
 

Parco

Moderator
I've got a question about a certain thought some of the devs decided to implement, why did you put a cap on the amount of skills one can learn? Or is it just a bug?
They put a cap on skills to make builds more diverse, so you can't just get good at everything.
 

Midcal9

Member
They put a cap on skills to make builds more diverse, so you can't just get good at everything.
Skill caps are usually an all around bad decision in pve exploration rpgs like exanima. You might say this game has a tactical aspect to it, but it doesn't really work in real time combat, there are far too many variables. Enemy positions are not static on the level, you can get jumped on by 4 of them at once, but only by one during a different play through. On top of that you can't level your hp, only increase your defense and combat skills, however with or without the skills it's mostly based around person's skill. In this game you rank up by getting good first, you character is a nice addition on top of your skill. Limiting that is like making the candy taste worse.

Why should I enjoy the combat or have any sense of accomplishment by killing enemies which don't drop anything anyways? Or maybe I should swap my shield skills for thaumaturgy? Who would do that knowing full well that when the rubber hits the road it's mostly your combat skills that are at the core of your survival. I've tried to play with additional allies, it's MEH. At best they are decoys.

Anyways, leveling up doesnt make one OP in any fashion, as for skill progression, make it slower the further one gets, but a hard cap is just nonsnesne. Takes away one of the most fun elelemnts of rpgs, a cap is a de motivator in this type of game.
 
Last edited:

Parco

Moderator
The usefulness of your companions depends on which companions you select, some are really effective and can be the main damage dealers even in the new maps.
Swapping shield skills for thaumaturgy can be a valid way for survival, can mask your mind, force push opponents away, teleport to a safe distance, etc. also combat skills isnt at the core of your survival, your ability to run away is.
You can't level your hp, but through armor/apparel your hp is effectively increased, so it will be a decision to make if you want this extra durability be taxing on your movements or not when choosing skills to train.
Enemies drop what they have on them, also why would you need item drops to feel a sense of accomplishment for defeating hard enemies? Though Exanima is more combat oriented than Sui Generis, every fight is still optional, if you don't want to kill something because it doesn't drop the loot you want, then don't.
When more skills are added, ranged combat, more fleshed out thaumaturgy trees and so on, then yea, being able to train all of the skills is gonna be OP. Even if you personally has mastered combat, having those skills have a huge effect on your performance, so gonna still struggle against someone who isn't as good at combat but has those skills trained. With the level cap you can either be a jack of all traits but master of none or master of a certain thing.
Isn't making your character a certain build the fun thing about a role playing game? You choose to play a certain class and try to beat the game through that character, the strength and weaknesses of the character is gonna make certain parts of the games easier and other harder. I tend to not find rpg games where the character becomes an all around master of everything that fun to play, it makes the playthroughs less interesting.
Maybe the skill cap might be relaxed because Exanima is more combat oriented and not that long, it's still a VIP thing, but for Sui Generis I'm pretty sure the skill cap will be a thing.
 

Midcal9

Member
The usefulness of your companions depends on which companions you select, some are really effective and can be the main damage dealers even in the new maps.
Swapping shield skills for thaumaturgy can be a valid way for survival, can mask your mind, force push opponents away, teleport to a safe distance, etc. also combat skills isnt at the core of your survival, your ability to run away is.
Some are somewhat more resilient and responsive in combat than others however they all suffer from the same mistakes AI does in this game. They also do not last very long even with the best equipment and overall tend to be more of a nuisance. They are just another thing you have to constantly mind and take care of. In combat against very aggressive, tanky enemies such as Alpha Fael (that's what pp call them) they can sometimes turn into literally that very crappy chair that's in your way and makes you fall, ahaha. Nah, useless decoys. That comes from someone who has almost 4k hours in CSGO and loves a good and long team based matches.

Shield skills are not even my favorite skill tree, during my last playthrough, which ended fairly abruptly in the market due to gravity after having literally killed everything in all other areas, I had 5 Thaum skills and almost entire thaum tree. I've used it, had some tough skelly and non skelly teammates including the sword-master and knights. They are meh. Shield skills are a far more predictable and reliable variable than mates that come and go, act differently depending on the situation and such like. Having those fellas should be a nice, fun extra during a second half or even late game stage. It's a cool quirk, I guess. Although basically it's just nothing but some rudimentary AI manipulation from a server admin, lol. In my opinion what's really unique and great about this game is its visual style, environment and weapons especially, and it's combat system of course. Lore comes second and only then can I even start considering thmautargy. I guess it can be a nice addition to lore. But no, most aspects of thaum are not reliable and too kinky. Also, do you really think you'd have enough time to effectively force push someone while getting beaten up by 3 fael in close quarters? I doubt it. As for running away to survive, well no. If you want to fully experience the game at its fullest while feeling like you're on top of it I do not think that running is a core survival strategy, I'd say it's something one might consider in some situations.
Enemies drop what they have on them, also why would you need item drops to feel a sense of accomplishment for defeating hard enemies? Though Exanima is more combat oriented than Sui Generis, every fight is still optional, if you don't want to kill something because it doesn't drop the loot you want, then don't.
I never said anything about the drops, most items enemies drop are garbage anyways, real good items can only be found in chests, so far at least. A certain amount of my sense of accomplishment, and i'm sure this applies to a lot more people out there, comes from getting XP from killed enemies, discovered items, and overall game progression. Killing an enemy which doesn't provide you anything useful apart from having fun fighting it feels incomplete for this type of game. Perhaps after a certain amount of skills is learned it should become harder to "skill up" but blocking it completely is just stupid. I'm at the last level of the current Beta, all other levels have been cleared and I've got only two 2 thaum skills so far. On top of that the devs plan to add more thaum...So if you want to have both mind and force thaum I'd have to give up on most combat skills in order to have them? That's just stupid. From the devs point of view making the whole skill tree accessible, or let's say ermm 85% of it by the end of the story with everything dead and discovered seems like a far better approach. Also, why would my Character's progress and learning have to be fully stopped from a lore or an in-game world perspective? What's the philosophy behind it?
When more skills are added, ranged combat, more fleshed out thaumaturgy trees and so on, then yea, being able to train all of the skills is gonna be OP. Even if you personally has mastered combat, having those skills have a huge effect on your performance, so gonna still struggle against someone who isn't as good at combat but has those skills trained. With the level cap you can either be a jack of all traits but master of none or master of a certain thing.
By adding more skills to the game and having this hard cap on the amount of skills one can learn you're taking away the motivation from the players who for example really likes magic so he learns first, get's all of the magic skills and then gets artificially stopped by the Devs. It's a mid game cockblock. As for being op, mind thaum definitely did not make my character any stronger, pack of faels was just as tough with or without it. Perhaps force thaum could be somewhat more combat applicable, I guess? But then to get all skills with the current skill progression rate you'd probably have to clear like 12 to 15 levels in exanima? Seems like a worthy present at the end of the game. Again, the very concept of a mid game HARD FULL STOP CAP on progression is just stupid. An all around no fun decision. When I've realized I've reached it and have no real interest in mind thaum I haven't played in exanima for 2 days straight. It's a real, artificial de motivator, trust me, and to me it makes 0 lore sense.
Isn't making your character a certain build the fun thing about a role playing game? You choose to play a certain class and try to beat the game through that character, the strength and weaknesses of the character is gonna make certain parts of the games easier and other harder. I tend to not find rpg games where the character becomes an all around master of everything that fun to play, it makes the playthroughs less interesting.
Maybe the skill cap might be relaxed because Exanima is more combat oriented and not that long, it's still a VIP thing, but for Sui Generis I'm pretty sure the skill cap will be a thing.
Not in this game. Not in this game because it is an Exploration/Combat based rpg. Having to decide which skill/skills/skill tree you're going to learn already decides your build in a lot of ways, it's an ingame process-build, and you experience it in game for hours and hours. Your playstyle and general approach are already set in stone by your personality and skill level. I like combat but I also want thaum just for the sake of making my character, myself in this game more powerful, so that no one else could "take over my mind", it's a purely lore centered decision for me, and this game must always feel natural and sensible, believable and immersive. Hard cap felt like a total WTF to me when I discovered it in the market area, "HUH WHY NO PROGRESS IS DIZ A BUG? WUT?". I can't give a rats ass about some silly AI npc running around me, at best it just messes with my attention, at worst i stumble over them in combat or they negatively affect enemy's AI and make it's movement more unpredictable. I want to pull its movement strings, makes it easier to hit.

Allowing me to get 80 to 85% of all skills by the end of the game won't make me "too OP". If it would than the devs should make enemies harder, clear and simple.
 
Last edited:

Landysh

Member
Hey, I'm new to game, however, I noticed ladders on a floor, so...
...will the mutly-floor dungeons with some kind of ladder riddles?
I'll be grateful.
 

Calicem

Member
I'm really enjoying this game and have been playing it incessantly for the past month, so far I think it's really good but I think my suggestions would improve it quite a bit

1. A shove mechanic. Shove would be really good when they get right in your face and you want them to fuck off. Especially good for ghouls in the sewers. It should also be an unlockable skill that you'd have to learn.

2. Flying creatures. A flying bat-like thing would be really cool, maybe it'll swoop down and knock you over. Hitting it would require stabs and overheads, or ranged which is upcoming.

3. More trash mobs, or some trash mobs. I think it would be very fun if there was a sequence when you get swarmed by a horde of very weak creatures, wherein you can mindlessly swing into them. Maybe tentacle worms in the sewers or baby/dwarfed ghouls. Would be very fun imo so you can feel like a god, even for a brief moment. Maybe also weaponless mindless zombies could suffice.

4. We need more dialogue, I'd like to get to know Derrin better and hear more of his reaction towards things. I've also heard he trusts you less tthe more you bump into him. Why isn't there any dialogue for that? He could say something "Hey watch it" or "Excuse me!" or something.
 
Last edited:

Calicem

Member
Hello!
First of all, sorry for my bad english)
Second.. this game is amazing. I have never seen so incredible physics and combat system. Skills and “leveling” are pretty cool and interesting too.
But I have question...
I think, that heavy armor is cool, but what if I want to use light armor? Will I have some benefits from using it? Because now, if we just imagine PVP, someone in heavy armor can just run up to me and easily knock me down, then kill me while I lay on the ground. Does it mean, that game is forcing us to use only heavy armor?
The game tries to be realistic and does a decent job at doing so, so as a result, heavy armor in real life isn't actually "heavy" that much, as it is 40-60 pounds distributed evenly on your body. Heavy armor in real life is pretty much a straight upgrade (that's why people used it), just like in the game.
 

Alfio

Member
Hola a todos. Saludos desde Chile. Primeramente felicitarlos de corazón por el excelente trabajo hecho en este juego. He seguido Sui Generis desde sus inicios, y cuando lanzaron Exanima no podía más de alegría. Las sensaciones al jugarlo fueron idénticas o mejores a aquellas que experimenté con Diablo 1. Se pasaron. Muy buen trabajo.
Creo que una buena medida sería generar una categoría (se se si ya la hay) para aquellos como yo que quieran hacer aportes económicos más grandes. Por mi lado, como forma de ayudar, le he regalado el juego a todos mis amigos posibles. Incluso a gente que no conozco mucho.
Por el juego en sí, solo decir que los desarrolladores tienen un excelente gusto, y confío en las decisiones que han tomado y seguirán tomando. Quizá apurar un poco el dasarrollo de Sui Generis con más recursos.
Otro tema importante, y no sé por qué se da en el mundo del videojuego, es no menospreciar el idioma español. Es uno de los idiomas más hablado en el mundo. Y tiene un crecimiento en internet muy importante. ¿Podría ayudar en algo así?
Eso, nuevamente felicitarlos. ¡¡Se pasaron!!
 

Calicem

Member
Also a much easier thing to implement; Can we get Faels and Ghouls in arena? It would be really great. Maybe 2 vs 6 ghouls for master, something like that? Maybe 2 faels vs 2 players?
 

Broface

Member
I'm really enjoying this game and have been playing it incessantly for the past month, so far I think it's really good but I think my suggestions would improve it quite a bit

1. A shove mechanic. Shove would be really good when they get right in your face and you want them to fuck off. Especially good for ghouls in the sewers. It should also be an unlockable skill that you'd have to learn.

2. Flying creatures. A flying bat-like thing would be really cool, maybe it'll swoop down and knock you over. Hitting it would require stabs and overheads, or ranged which is upcoming.

3. More trash mobs, or some trash mobs. I think it would be very fun if there was a sequence when you get swarmed by a horde of very weak creatures, wherein you can mindlessly swing into them. Maybe tentacle worms in the sewers or baby/dwarfed ghouls. Would be very fun imo so you can feel like a god, even for a brief moment. Maybe also weaponless mindless zombies could suffice.

4. We need more dialogue, I'd like to get to know Derrin better and hear more of his reaction towards things. I've also heard he trusts you less tthe more you bump into him. Why isn't there any dialogue for that? He could say something "Hey watch it" or "Excuse me!" or something.
I definitely agree with the commentary from Derrin part. Him talking to me about portals while I beat down skeles is one of my favorite parts. As for trash mobs, that is what the first three floors are for entirely. If they only had zombies this game would be a breeze as for leveling up/ unlocking thaums. I am also definitely waiting to see what they do with creatures that fly, just cause watching my character flail as hes attacked by bees would be hilarious.
 

Broface

Member
Hey, I'm new to game, however, I noticed ladders on a floor, so...
...will the mutly-floor dungeons with some kind of ladder riddles?
I'll be grateful.
This game melts my brain enough as it is, that would be mind blowing. I assume you are talking about the ladder bolted into the wall, cant remember what floor. I look forward to further advances in climbing as well, but I dont think I would ever be ready for a 3d BM puzzle, not just mazes lol
 
Contrary to belief it is actually quite the underdark..... ugmm.. I mean undertaking that is the >Exanima<. there is just so much of this game I love. the rouge elements, scavenging for gear and items. another thing is I love challenges of different enemy types. this immersion of traps, enemies, levels, items, plots,. I love every second of this game.

however one needs enchantment, Transmutation, or Elemental control to handle demons. or divination. I did read the lore. and I found there was many Invasions into this world. buy this logic alone. bare metal is a taste of will, wit, Quintessence.
 
I've got a question about a certain thought some of the devs decided to implement, why did you put a cap on the amount of skills one can learn? Or is it just a bug?
i read this a while ago and it's been in the back of my mind since... i just made an account and found this thread (is that what it's called? a thread?) for the sole purpose of weighing in on this. it's a BAD IDEA. the skill cap that is. it might be that not everyone would care about the cap, but i can't imagine anyone would care about it not being there. even if there was some secondary use for those xp points after you reached level whatever, like a second set of skills that just added tiny little fraction of a percentage bonuses to stuff you had already learned. you know enhancing the skills you already know by just a little bit, so there's still progression... i'm not saying that's a good idea i'm just trying to illustrate that there has to be some other way to go about it.

i remember playing fallout 3, i think it was. i was all excited about it. i mean i just graduated from playing f-zero on my n64 and all of a sudden i've got access to what i thought were these crazy advanced games. mind was blown. anyways, suddenly my character has reached level 20 or whatever it was... and that was it. done. my little heart. i think that was actually how i discovered that people made modifications for games. googling the fo3 level cap thing. anyways my point is that even this game and the pc i was playing it on which seemed like alien technology, was ruined for me by a level cap... and i'm sure there are a lot of people like me out there who just really get off gaining those god forsaken levels, who would lose all interest once they hit the end of xp road. it's just a bad idea.
 

Solinarius

Member
and i'm sure there are a lot of people like me out there who just really get off gaining those god forsaken levels, who would lose all interest once they hit the end of xp road. it's just a bad idea.
Get off the treadmill; then you won't feel this way.

Grinding as a metagame is one of those contemporary features Exanima and Sui Generis are designed to oppose, and something that BM is strongly opposed. That said, there could be a thin silver lining for you. I think unlimited progression with thaumaturgy could be a good idea. For instance, let's say you chose the generalist thaum path. If you play one character long enough, you might be able to learn up to three forms? I'd expect that to take a long time, and longer still to learn more powers in each form. Lastly, the combat has truly unlimited progression for a player that strives to keep getting better, and it's not even complete.

Don't forget you can unlearn Techniques to pursue others. This could be much more meaningful once all the Techniques are implemented. There's also going to be Secondary Skills to learn of which the limit is only how many they decide to implement. Keep in mind that Techniques are just a small part of the game.
 
Top

Home|Games|Media|Store|Account|Forums|Contact




© Copyright 2019 Bare Mettle Entertainment Ltd. All rights reserved.