Thoughts and Ideas General

[The Hedge Knight]

From what we understand, infantry were mostly used in human waves to smash against other infantry. Cavalry were meant to attack archers and to hit infantry from the sides and back while archers were to harry approaching infantry and drop their morale. We also know that the common infantry in the middle ages knew nearly nothing of sword play and such and used basically whatever they had lying around their farm. There are no recorded cases of ninjas or martial artist formations in medieval warfare.

 

[Rob]

There are no recorded cases of ninjas or martial artist formations in medieval warfare.

For sure, the "martial artists" that I've been talking about probably bare no resemblance to ninjas in modern day interpretation. Rather, think of medieval "martial artistis" as those that are skilled at fighting no matter the circumstances, no matter the weaponry!

From what we understand, infantry were mostly used in human waves to smash against other infantry. Cavalry were meant to attack archers and to hit infantry from the sides and back while archers were to harry approaching infantry and drop their morale. We also know that the common infantry in the middle ages knew nearly nothing of sword play and such and used basically whatever they had lying around their farm.

Forgive me if I am wrong, but I would suppose that this is an artifact of common conception, representation in modern media, and perhaps not completely accurate regarding actual history. Just speculation, at this stage.

 

[Rob]

Anyway, reverting back to the original discussion as to whether any form of martial arts should be included in Sui Generis...

My feeling is that there are three distinct potential combat types:
(1) armed combat
(2) projectile combat
(3) unarmed combat

Implementation will be separate, almost independent, for these three types. These are in order of importance. Consequently, implementation should consider them in this order. I would rather have no unarmed combat than rubbish unarmed combat. However, if it is possible to have enough time to design a proper unarmed combat, system, it would be awesome to have such a system. I would not push it past that - Bare Mettle know what they are doing.

 

[The Hedge Knight]

The middle ages have always been an obsession of mine, all the books, documentaries and reports I have read always say the same thing. None of it involves martial arts.

 

[RichardTito]

That awkward moment where an attempt you made to join in a discussion about medieval martial arts gets lost in a 2 man debate.

Pack animals anyone? Hahaha.

 

[Tony]

Hand to hand and close quarters combat was taught (and used) in warfare in ancient times and is still taught (and used) to this day. Warfare tends to be unpredictable and you can't always depend on being armed or to be in a situation that allows you to use your weapon ideally. Samurai would practice koryu jujutsu, which focused on techniques that would allow someone who is lightly or unarmed to defeat a more heavily armed opponent. Vikings trained in both armed and unarmed combat as well. The unarmed combat they trained in, called Glima, was designed to hone muscle memory and teach appropriate reactions and timing (such as evading and then using your opponents attack against them) which could be used in actual battle. All throughout history you can find similar examples.

 

[Rob]

That awkward moment where an attempt you made to join in a discussion about medieval martial arts gets lost in a 2 man debate.

Pack animals anyone? Hahaha.

I think Richard is right, we digress. Ultimately, there are various documentations that may originate from fictitious or non-fictitious sources, which may inspire our belief of suitability for a game featuring realistic appropriate medieval warfare.

Ultimately, I can imagine that being able to control a pack of hounds would be cool!

 

[The Hedge Knight]

Hand to hand and close quarters combat was taught (and used) in warfare in ancient times and is still taught (and used) to this day. Warfare tends to be unpredictable and you can't always depend on being armed or to be in a situation that allows you to use your weapon ideally. Samurai would practice koryu jujutsu, which focused on techniques that would allow someone who is lightly or unarmed to defeat a more heavily armed opponent. Vikings trained in both armed and unarmed combat as well. The unarmed combat they trained in, called Glima, was designed to hone muscle memory and teach appropriate reactions and timing (such as evading and then using your opponents attack against them) which could be used in actual battle. All throughout history you can find similar examples.

But the standard medieval army did not rely on personal skill. They did not have well trained individuals like in Asia or the Nordic lands.

 

[Rob]

But the standard medieval army did not rely on personal skill. They did not have well trained individuals like in Asia or the Nordic lands.

Do you have sources for this? (P.S. Nordic and European history are greatly intertwined)

 

[Tony]

But the standard medieval army did not rely on personal skill. They did not have well trained individuals like in Asia or the Nordic lands.

There is no such thing as a "standard medieval army". If you've studied history you will know that in Europe land was constantly being fought over by many diverse groups.

 

[The Hedge Knight]

Do you have sources for this? (P.S. Nordic and European history are greatly intertwined)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_warfare

Sources should be on that page, sorry, I don't feel like hunting them down individually.

There is no such thing as a "standard medieval army". If you've studied history you will know that in Europe land was constantly being fought over by many diverse groups.

Of course, but England, France, the HRE, Italy, Spain, they all had basically the same idea for the military.

 

[Rob]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_warfare
Sources should be on that page, sorry, I don't feel like hunting them down individually.

I feel that your argument *may* possibly have some bearing on the basis of law of averages, for games such as those in the "Total War" series. However, since in this context we're interested in individual characters, I don't see how this applies. Especially given that we've established the existence of wide-spread European martial arts in the Middle Ages.

 

[Granville]

Just to jump back in, as evidence of the prevalence of some kind of formal unarmed fighting style being used by militaries throughout history, one only has to look at ancient Greece and pankration, the fighting style used by Alexander the great and the spartan hopilites.

On a slightly different note, why the focus on European armies? Is it not safe to assume that a man who fights with his bare hands everyday against animals monsters and heavily armored anthropoids and lives, has developed his own fighting style? and you can even assume some knowledge of unarmed fighting at the very beginning of our character because of the time he is living in, chances are he has seen his fair share of playground scuffs and tavern brawls in his time previous to becoming our hero.

 

[Kale]

I havne't read the entire thread so.... if it's been said, sorry.

Since Modding seems to be a given. Is it possible to have a simple way to add character model.

Take Skyrim for example, it's pretty much set so that all human females use the same texture, so if you change one, you change them all. Can it be made so that they can use from a list, which can start with just one, if you plan to only have one, but make it expandable to more. An example, I suppose would be to store references in a txt file and on character creation, it would read each line in the txt file and build an array out of it so it can be chosen from a random number (or by choice) in the array.

 

[Rob]

Just to jump back in, as evidence of the prevalence of some kind of formal unarmed fighting style being used by militaries throughout history, one only has to look at ancient Greece and pankration, the fighting style used by Alexander the great and the spartan hopilites.

On a slightly different note, why the focus on European armies? Is it not safe to assume that a man who fights with his bare hands everyday against animals monsters and heavily armored anthropoids and lives, has developed his own fighting style? and you can even assume some knowledge of unarmed fighting at the very beginning of our character because of the time he is living in, chances are he has seen his fair share of playground scuffs and tavern brawls in his time previous to becoming our hero.

I like this way of thinking. Fighting style is based on experience, and does not necessarily have to conform to some standard in order to be effective. Although this is generally presumed, or rather enforced, under militarian rule.

 

[Tony]

I havne't read the entire thread so.... if it's been said, sorry.

Since Modding seems to be a given. Is it possible to have a simple way to add character model.

So far an official modding toolset is not guaranteed but something they'd like to do (most likely after release). Since such a toolset has yet to be created I doubt they'll give specifics on what it may or may not include. However, suggestions are welcome!

 

[Rob]

I havne't read the entire thread so.... if it's been said, sorry.

Since Modding seems to be a given. Is it possible to have a simple way to add character model.

Take Skyrim for example, it's pretty much set so that all human females use the same texture, so if you change one, you change them all. Can it be made so that they can use from a list, which can start with just one, if you plan to only have one, but make it expandable to more. An example, I suppose would be to store references in a txt file and on character creation, it would read each line in the txt file and build an array out of it so it can be chosen from a random number (or by choice) in the array.

As far as I'm aware, such issues haven't been touched on... certainly not in this thread. Sounds interesting. If I were you I'd start a new thread dedicated to such considerations.

 

[Granville]

Fighting style is based on experience

This is very true, most fighting styles can be traced back to just one man, take Taekwon-Do for instance, founded and formulated by Grand Master General Choi Hung Hi 9th Dan. who, by the way, has only been dead 10 years, and Taekwon-Do has only been around since April 1955.

 

[Granville]

I feel i may have ruined the "general" part of this thread....

 

[Rob]

This is very true, most fighting styles can be traced back to just one man, take Taekwon-Do for instance, founded and formulated by Grand Master General Choi Hung Hi 9th Dan. who, by the way, has only been dead 10 years, and Taekwon-Do has only been around since April 1955.

The exact same can be said for Krav Maga:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imi_Lichtenfeld
Ultimately, trends are fickle. Fashion seems to prevail.