Inventory handling

[Cooper Holt]

Two words: Pack Rat. In all seriousness, I wouldn't mind having a small inventory but the balancing really comes from what we're expected to carry. A lot of games have you playing inventory management and hauling junk about because it is either necessary to sell all that junk, keep as backup, or use it to craft. Since there's no character crafting, as long as you receive enough currency to get by and items don't degrade (or allow backup weapon slots if they do), you wouldn't need to carry very much besides quest items which don't need to fit within a physical inventory.

Still, I like having the 2D thing that I can click and drag items onto in order to show me how many slots i have to work with, particularly if multiple things occupy the same space (quiver and arrows on back, sword and shield, etc). I mean it's not the most innovative system, but it works.

Edit: I forgot there isn't the sort of strict quest system that would require quest objects. Still, having a small inventory allows for devs to make content that allows people to pick up a few things instead of running into the issue where you really want the user to be able to pick up the Tome of Ultimate Evil but there's no system in place that allows it.

I like the idea of a "Pack Rat", but not necessarily as a real rat.
A lot of people have been discussing mounts that can carry gear, and I like the idea of horses/donkeys/etc. carrying your stuff; but I also like your idea of smaller, non-ridable pack-animals. Sounds fun.
However, what animal, realistically, would do this (other than the previously mentioned mules and stuff) ?

 

[Cooper Holt]

I quite like your ideas on food, Walltar. Having some small debuffs if you're hungry, like being a little bit weaker (like for lifting stuff and how fast you swing a sword and that) or slower or something (stuff that is barely noticable, really) would be preferable to just dying if you don't get enough to eat. it would be good for the folks wanting realism, and not be too big a deal for those who don't.
Although, not entirely sure what you meant by food being eaten passively, but I'm guessing you mean it's eaten automatically if you get hungry and it's in your inventory? I don't care for that, especially if different foods have different bonuses. being able to choose what you eat is essential.

I also think it'd be neat if you have to sit down and relax somewhere to actually eat something, and show an animation of you doing so (nothing more than like, 10 or 15 seconds, though). Well, maybe you shouldn't HAVE to find somewhere cosy to eat, you could easily take a few seconds to wolf something down in some dark corner of the underworld, or some forest or something, as long as you're in a fairly safe location.

One thing that would have to be done if hunger is implemented is have it happen very gradually, where it's not at all noticable for quite some time until you can see you're having some small difficulties (only up to a certain point though, where even when you're starved, you're still capabable of doing stuff fairly well). A system where you're running along and all of a sudden, you start walking more slowly (hence indicating you've gone up a hunger level, or something) would be immersion breaking, for one, and it would realy annoy folks who aren't for realism in this game, as the game is essentially telling them "you have to go eat now". It should be a case of the player deciding they should eat some of that bread and cheese they brought with them, so that they stay at the top of their game, you know? Not HAVING to eat because it means you'll be really noticably weaker otherwise. I know it seems like the same thing, but that small difference would make any hunger effects seem much more different, in my opinion.

Really, most realism type things (being affected by weather, hunger, thirst, being overencumbered) should be a bit like that. Something that happens gradually, not really noticable for a while, which gives the player the choice to remediate it if they so desire (which means NOT killing the player or giving them really really noticible, immediate debuffs for not fixing it). It should be something that the player can just shrug off if they have to, and keep going, or they can do something about it and alleviate the problem.
For instance, I liked the "limited" inventory system wherein you have a bag or something you carry around and you put your stuff in there, but, using the game's physics, carrying lots of stuff around would make you unbalanced and heavy and slow.
As for questions like "how are you going to fit a suit of armor in the bag?" keep in mind that metal armors are just seperate pieces of metal. You could easily just fit each piece in a bag a bit more compactly, and the "loot" bag I imagined was like a big sack, which you carry with you fairly easily (slung over your shoulder like a cartoon robber might carry a bag of swag), which you would quickly put down on the ground if you fear an enemy might be close or if you need to do something. Pack mules and horses could play a part in this too.

Of course, another approach to these things would be to have them be optional. As in, have a "survivalist" difficulty option, so that people who just want to go adventure and explore without worrying about inventory space, food and water, etc. can go do so, and those that really like planning ahead and having the worry of finding food to eat and wondering what to carry with them and what to leave behind can do all of those things.

Just my two cents. Okay, rant over. Sheesh, I talk a lot when I want to, huh?

I agree.
I hated it when I had 278 pounds of armor (somehow) in my Pip-Boy 3000 (Fallout), and suddenly it says "You are overencumbered", and I can barely move. It doesn't make any sense.

 

[Cooper Holt]

I like this thread.

 

[walltar]

I like this thread.

Yep there is noting like good ol' triple post

 

[Cooper Holt]

Yep there is noting like good ol' triple post

I accidentally clicked reply instead of edit on one of my earlier posts, so I had to erase it all. I wouldn't make a post with nothing in it, so I filled it with "I like this thread".

 

[The Urban Spaceman]

I had that happen too. Best thing to do is just type please delete & then report the post. Saves you looking arrogant

 

[Bibidibop]

As for questions like "how are you going to fit a suit of armor in the bag?" keep in mind that metal armors are just seperate pieces of metal. You could easily just fit each piece in a bag a bit more compactly, and the "loot" bag I imagined was like a big sack, which you carry with you fairly easily (slung over your shoulder like a cartoon robber might carry a bag of swag), which you would quickly put down on the ground if you fear an enemy might be close or if you need to do something. Pack mules and horses could play a part in this too.

It would be interesting for breast plates to act as hollow spaces. They could be semi-transparent, except for a boarder, and allow anything within that boarder, but they wouldn't act like a bag; if you lift the chest plate, whatever was inside is left in its same spot in the bag, and doesn't go with the plate.

It would be funny for any sufficiently container like item to work like a bag. Put trinkets in boots, or fill a glove with cereal.

I like the loot bag idea, it would be funny if sheets automatically turned into these in inventories when an item is placed on one. In its empty state it could take less space than when an item is placed in it. However, using a loot bag should cause speed and endurance issues which rise very quickly with load, since the carry method is awkward.

For armor carrying, maybe the most sensible thing to do is to have a purpose built armor rack which you carry on your back, or on the back of squire?

I mentioned this idea for another game: dungeon clearing service. They are are company to which you pay membership, and they go in after a battle to pick up and sell the loot. They keep a percentage and give you the rest of the profits. To keep individual items, you have to have your own pack methods. Membership would also be relatively costly, but far more efficient than manually clearing a large battlefield, besides which, if you're gone from a battlefield for even a short time, all of the loot will have been collected by locals, unless the location has a bad reputation.

I like the idea of a "Pack Rat", but not necessarily as a real rat.
A lot of people have been discussing mounts that can carry gear, and I like the idea of horses/donkeys/etc. carrying your stuff; but I also like your idea of smaller, non-ridable pack-animals. Sounds fun.
However, what animal, realistically, would do this (other than the previously mentioned mules and stuff) ?

Dogs are rarely used as pack animals, but they can carry small loads with a good harness, and can pull very small vehicles individually. They might make nice early pack assistants. But, I think the best early pack assistant would be a squire, because he could also help with putting on armor, and taking it off in a timely manner.

Reindeer would be interesting, as well as camels, both possibly as very special items. Actually, if we can ride animals, I would love to see a tamed kodiak bear mount.

 

[BigT2themax]

Woah, slow down, Bibidibop! Breathe! One idea at a time! (who am I kidding, I do this as well. )

Okay, let's go over each idea...
To be honest, I can't really picture the devs implementing the "container within a container" idea, it'd just be too complicated, and not really worth it. It basically just means hollow objects don't count at all in your inventory, apart from weight issues, and I don't think there'd be much of a need to pack things together quite so much. Turning cloths into bags is bordering on player crafting, which isn't going to happen (so sayeth the devs).

I can't see why you'd be travelling around with bed linens, anyway. Unless it's embroidered velvet or silk or wyvern leather or something, they're not going to sell for much, and even then, I doubt no sane adventurer would use such a thing as a loot bag (unless it's a dodongo stomach, that might be good for carrying explosive items). I suppose you could bring a towel along, that would make sense, as they have pretty much infinite uses and are absolutely essential to any traveller in Sui Generis (or anywhere else, for that matter).

Dungeon-clearing services sound a bit out of place, seeing as how gathering loot isn't really the most important thing when adventuring. Lugging around an extra set of armor would only happen if you're wanting to use it later (but not right now, because you want to keep your current armor for now or something) or if it's a very VERY expensive bit of armor (like, made of gold and encrusted with jewels expensive), to offset the annoyance of carrying it around. Still a neat idea, though.

As for squires, keep in mind the player starts as a normal, boring, unknown villager. As such, it'd be hard to get a squire to follow you around, seeing as how you're not a nobleman, nor a knight. I don't think any squires would want to become assistant to a villager-turned-adventurer, as they don't really get any formal training or promises of land or anything in return. Also, I don't think taking armor on and off all the time is going to be necessary for most things. It'd be annoying, to say the least.

Besides, you'd have to treat the squire really well otherwise another thaumaturge might just start tutoring him, and taking him on adventures as they transform into squirrels and birds and such, only for the squire to become the king of sui generis-land after pulling a stone from a sword.

Okay, I think I got enough references in there. Jokes aside, your enthusiasm is awesome, and those are very unique ideas, I must say. Maybe flesh them out a little bit, as I'm starting to think I didn't quite grasp the concept of some of them, perhaps?

 

[Cooper Holt]

Th

It would be interesting for breast plates to act as hollow spaces. They could be semi-transparent, except for a boarder, and allow anything within that boarder, but they wouldn't act like a bag; if you lift the chest plate, whatever was inside is left in its same spot in the bag, and doesn't go with the plate.

It would be funny for any sufficiently container like item to work like a bag. Put trinkets in boots, or fill a glove with cereal.

I like the loot bag idea, it would be funny if sheets automatically turned into these in inventories when an item is placed on one. In its empty state it could take less space than when an item is placed in it. However, using a loot bag should cause speed and endurance issues which rise very quickly with load, since the carry method is awkward.

For armor carrying, maybe the most sensible thing to do is to have a purpose built armor rack which you carry on your back, or on the back of squire?

I mentioned this idea for another game: dungeon clearing service. They are are company to which you pay membership, and they go in after a battle to pick up and sell the loot. They keep a percentage and give you the rest of the profits. To keep individual items, you have to have your own pack methods. Membership would also be relatively costly, but far more efficient than manually clearing a large battlefield, besides which, if you're gone from a battlefield for even a short time, all of the loot will have been collected by locals, unless the location has a bad reputation.


Dogs are rarely used as pack animals, but they can carry small loads with a good harness, and can pull very small vehicles individually. They might make nice early pack assistants. But, I think the best early pack assistant would be a squire, because he could also help with putting on armor, and taking it off in a timely manner.

Reindeer would be interesting, as well as camels, both possibly as very special items. Actually, if we can ride animals, I would love to see a tamed kodiak bear mount.

Though I like the ideas, this is supposed to be a low-fantasy game.
Camels wouldn't exist in the climate of SG.
Reindeer would most likely run away upon seeing you, so you wouldn't get the chance to tame one.
And, finally, Kodiak bears are the largest subspecies of brown bear (they're huge), and they inhabit mostly Alaska. But hey, the land of Sui Generis isn't necessarily a real place, so seeing one could possibly maybe be possibly possible.

I love the squire idea, however. Having a pack animal or a companion hold your gear would probably make the most sense of all the ideas. Though pack animals can't really fight... :/

Seeing a dog pulling a little cart would be cute and hilarious.

 

[Bibidibop]

Th

Though I like the ideas, this is supposed to be a low-fantasy game.
Camels wouldn't exist in the climate of SG.
Reindeer would most likely run away upon seeing you, so you wouldn't get the chance to tame one.
And, finally, Kodiak bears are the largest subspecies of brown bear (they're huge), and they inhabit mostly Alaska. But hey, the land of Sui Generis isn't necessarily a real place, so seeing one could possibly maybe be possibly possible.

The ancient world was more connected than some people realize, so someone could have a camel, but it would be vanishingly rare. A tamed Kodiak really would be fantasy, but it wouldn't require reality warping, just an interesting series of events, and maybe a teeny pinch of mind magic. There are actually domesticated reindeer in Siberia and Mongolia, and I think Scandinavian countries have them.

I love the squire idea, however. Having a pack animal or a companion hold your gear would probably make the most sense of all the ideas. Though pack animals can't really fight... :/

If they're overloaded or hitched to a cart, yeah they won't be able to fight. But, that gives me an idea, what if you could find trainers to pay to teach your animals skills? You could train cart animals to retreat a certain distance from a fight, in an orderly manner, to stay, to come, etc. Pricey animals could have those abilities as standard. A squire should have all of that, as well as the ability to drop his load if armed, so he can participate in fighting.

Seeing a dog pulling a little cart would be cute and hilarious.

I'm in love.
That image is almost the equal of the following.

Miniature horses were used for pulling carts in coal mines, thanks to their small stature and suprising strength.

http://miniaturehorses-cruzmountain.com/carts.html

 

[Bibidibop]

As for squires, keep in mind the player starts as a normal, boring, unknown villager.

Ah, I wasn't sure of that. In that case, we would definitely need a certain skill or reputation level to hire a squire.

As for the hollow item thing, I was thinking of it only being for stiff items, not shirts. A shirt fits in a bag better when rolled or folded, than if you stuff it with other shirts; but, armor has all that internal volume being wasted, unless the front and back plates can be set into each other when not worn.

 

[Rod_Lightning]

What about BEING a squire

Also, donkeys and mules all the way. Who needs a Zorro-like horse when you gots mules!

 

[BigT2themax]

Nobody understood my references.

 

[Cooper Holt]

The ancient world was more connected than some people realize, so someone could have a camel, but it would be vanishingly rare. A tamed Kodiak really would be fantasy, but it wouldn't require reality warping, just an interesting series of events, and maybe a teeny pinch of mind magic. There are actually domesticated reindeer in Siberia and Mongolia, and I think Scandinavian countries have them.

If they're overloaded or hitched to a cart, yeah they won't be able to fight. But, that gives me an idea, what if you could find trainers to pay to teach your animals skills? You could train cart animals to retreat a certain distance from a fight, in an orderly manner, to stay, to come, etc. Pricey animals could have those abilities as standard. A squire should have all of that, as well as the ability to drop his load if armed, so he can participate in fighting.


I'm in love.
That image is almost the equal of the following.

Miniature horses were used for pulling carts in coal mines, thanks to their small stature and suprising strength.

http://miniaturehorses-cruzmountain.com/carts.html

I appreciate yo' appreciation.
Also, this isn't the "ancient world" we're talking about. This isn't in earth's history.
Mind magic would be fun to play with. Making an animal more calm and willing to cooperate. Good idea.
Also, I love miniature horses.

 

[Bibidibop]

I found the game with the ground, bag, and hand based inventory; it's called NEO Scavenger.

http://bluebottlegames.com/main/node/1
http://bluebottlegames.com/src/nsDemoFullscreen.php

 

[Bibidibop]

I had another thought. When we die, and get resurrected, we are likely going to have to track our old body down for the old loot, but there are two ways around this.

First, with a pack animal you can always have your secondary gear with you, and when you die, the animal could be trained to go to the closest resurrection point to meet you with your gear. Second, if we can get a squire, he could know to remove all of your body's loot, and then seek the closest resurrection point. Any sort of human companion could act in that manner. The third option is, with a human companion you could have them return to your home for your backup set of gear, and bring it to you.

The last one requires some way to organize equipment sets, and order their sequence of pickup.

 

[Cooper Holt]

I was thinking that you'd get resurrected where you got killed...
the only downfall to this would be spawnkilling.
Perhaps the game would spawn you to the last place you were that was out of any hostile's field of view. With this being said, I don't mean you would have to go back in to the monster's lair to get your stuff, I just mean that you and your gear would spawn in the closest safe spot nearby.

 

[BigT2themax]

Yeah, we're probably not going to be able to answer the "how to get your stuff back" question until we know more about the resurrection mechanics, because currently we have no idea whether we are resurrected with a new body or we just come back to life with our body rejuvenated and with our equipment intact (or not). I'm kinda leaning towards just coming back to life with our old bodies, but anything could be possible, really.

As for getting followers and animals to come to you with new equipment, I think that'd be a neat idea so long as players will have the means of having an entirely separate set of back-up armor, because otherwise, it'd be pointless. Of course, the back-up armor could just be some very basic clothes or whatever, who knows?

In any case, these sorts of behaviors and such are things I think would be awesome as an emerging feature of the AI. As in, the devs don't specifically code the AI to have a "bring equipment to me" order built-in, but to let the player give instructions to followers to hold on to the back-up armor or pick everything up off the old body and bring it to a meeting place if the player dies (as you suggested, Bibidibop).

It would give some pretty awesome depth to followers if a simple, non-complex system of commands and equipment and inventory handling and such could be combined to allow followers to do things like this.

 

[Meaghan Ballard]

This is something I have been wondering for a while, and I couldn't find it mentioned anywhere. Will the in game currency have weight? In most games it is weightless, and while this makes sense in that each individual coin would have and little to no affect on the total weight you are carrying but added up it could become quite heavy. For example, in Skyrim I have 20,000 gold, but it is still considered weightless, and I am pretty sure a dragon might have some difficulty lifting that in real life. Also, if there is a traditional copper-silver-gold coin system, and the coins DO have weight, will the coppers magically transform into silver when you get enough of them, as they do in every other game? Or would you have to go to a money changer to trade in your coppers for silver and gold? While this is more realistic, it would also force the AI to keep track of all the individual coins in the entire economy, which may be asking a bit much.

 

[ZaratanCho]

Even if it has weight you probably won't have so much of it. Who would carry 20,000 coins with him ? ;D It is hard to compare it to skyrim because the economy will probably be way too different. You won't be buying tons of things all the time that are worth tens or hundreads of currency. When you get far in the game maybe you will have to find a safe spot to store your wealth, if you think that stacking crazy amounts of money is that important. ;D About the copper-silver-gold thing, seems like a good question, I guess it will be just be one type to make things easier, but who knows.

I wonder will you be able to barter with traders/people.